Posts by OneEng1

Quote from Wheresthedug

OneEng1 once again, I agree with most of your reasoning. It would be preferable to have the full range of FX and Morphing. The decision to dump the screen was a masterstroke in my opinion. Having the small form factor with all the space being used for physical controls makes the unit incredibly easy to use as a basic amp. I have now spent a several hours on the player and the interface is super easy and intuitive.

I certainly can't argue with someone that is actually using one ;).

I guess my thought about a "player" was "in for a penny, in for a pound" when it came to the physical controls. If you need the app for most things, then why not use it for all things (other than live rig changes and efx on/off in a live situation. These of course require physical foot switches).

I do understand that as I just play live, my viewpoint is only representative of those that have the same use model as I do. For me, the color LCD and small form factor are all just features that make playing live easy. Since I never edit when I play live, I have no issue doing all my editing through a tablet, PC, or Phone.

In a live situation, the device is going to be on the floor. I don't want to bend over to do anything live, so the physical buttons (other than the foot switches) are useless to me anyway.

I used to tweak my KPA Rack with the front controls .... but not since rig manager got serious and included an editor. Now, I do ALL my tweaking and performance setup through the PC. When it comes to the live performance, my only interface is the Kemper FC..... which has no knobs on it at all.

In fact, the ONLY thing I have ever edited live was changing the XLR output from stereo to mono when using a board that didn't have room for 2 inputs for the guitar. (As an aside, the only reason I like stereo live is for the IEM experience where I enjoy hearing the beauty of the KPA stereo efx image while performing ).

Now, as a table top processor, perhaps the need for physical knobs is greater (I do tend to utilize the EQ knobs and reverb/delay controls on the rack for quick tweaks vs the rig manager editor controls ..... just not live).

My main contention is that my personal preference would have been to forego all the knobs and spend the $ and physical real estate on a decent color LCD instead.

As for the pay-for-premium plug-in's model? I would actually be OK with this .... especially if they lowered the base price. Then I could pay ONLY for the things that are most important to me. Natural reverb, and some of the fancier delays. I don't use morph (although I may some day as I can see how cool this feature can be) or MOST of the efx that are missing on the Play.

Almost all of the newer digital mixers are moving to this model. They charge extra for their premium plug-in algorithms.

I think that most of us would accept such a model ESPECIALLY if it gave us a continuously improving set of features and functions that could be paid for to update our KPA with for the next 20 years. This would also give Kemper new revenue to support the work needed to develop these features. I promise you guys, firmware developers, validation and release management are NOT cheap.

As for my continuous rants about the lack of a color LCD, it is what it is. My guess is that it is still best in class in many respects.

Yes, it is stupid to create a low end product that undercuts your premium products with the same features.

Less controls.... I concur.

Less FX slots .... I concur.

Phone app control .... I concur.

No profiling.... I concur.

No morph .... Maybe.

Price point.... I would concur IF:

It had a color LCD.

It had all the EFX of the KPA

I think Behringer did a good job going from full size X32 to the X32 Rack.

3k for the full unit, 1.6k for the rack with tablet control. Full processing capability in both.

The value solution was the X air x 18 ($740) Less functional and less capable than the X32 and half the price of the lowest full capable device.

For Kemper, that would mean:

Full setup Stage 1.6k

Full capable, smaller unit with phone or tablet control $800. Cut down version value option $400.00.

I actually believe that a 3 button, full capable player at $800 would have been my target (maybe $700 without profiling and all physical input capabilities).

No screen, reduced efx slots, reduced efx..... I think your looking at $500-$600 considering the competition.

It's possible the Kemper team has it right and I have it wrong though.

Quote from Ruefus

Until now - every Kemper has been self-sufficient in that ann app is a convenience and not required.

That is not a criticism. Compromises have to be made for the smaller unit.

People have been whining about the screen on the head rack and stage pretty much since day one. I think that complaint is overblown.

No physical controls with an app being the only method of control/tweaking would (IMO) be a nightmare. Now you are entirely dependent on another device.

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Since it's primary function is a player, you only need to navigate rigs with the foot switches.

If you are using it at home, you have rig manager.

To your point, people who currently own a KPA have been asking for a color screen. Seems like a good piece of marketing information there.

I don't see the need for any physical interfaces other than the foot switches, led's and color LCD.

Any tweaking of anything can be much better handled in the app.

I agree that spill-over and tone are great strengths of the player. I also agree that a certain type of musician will find these features alone outweigh any other weaknesses.

My concern is that there are more people that will choose the sexier device.

Of course, this is just my thoughts.

I already have a rack and fc. If I were to by anything else it would be the new player. This is because I would want to reuse my sounds and rigs.

If I were in the market for a small device in the $500-$700 range and didn't already have a KPA, I would be likely to buy a device with a color LCD.

My guess is that there are many more potential customers that would say the same vs. those that either have a KPA or would choose to believe that the Player's tone difference was a good trade off for the color LCD.

Again, I could be wrong.

Here in the US it is listing for ~$700 as I understand it. This puts it in direct market competition with the Helix Stomp HX and XL.

Both the Helix units offer an efx loop and a color LCD screen. The XL offers a more comprehensive set of foot switches as well.

One can argue that a Helix is not in the same tonal category as the KPA (I certainly feel this is the case); however, I would argue that Helix poses significant competition in this price point.

Kemper Player Pro's:

1. Backup to full KPA
2. Better tube tone
3. Easier to understand workflow (more tube amp + pedal board standard)

Helix Pro's:

1. Color LCD Screen - Better labeling of the patch you are on and its routing/efx (although it is small)
2. XL version has a more complete set of foot switches for live performance
3. Effects loop for those that use it

My personal opinion is that Kemper is going to have to lower the price after a year on this product. I like the product and believe that it will be a very good one indeed; however, my product manager self says that the color LCD is sexy on the helix and will sell. I would not have released a product without the color LCD even if I thought it was functionally irrelevant due to size. In fact, I would have argued that the Kemper Player have a larger color LCD than the Helix and would have touted its readability in a live setting.

Still, it isn't like the Player is a bad product, I just think it would have been worth the extra cost for the color LCD. Just my 2 cents.

Quote from Hoki Toki

I guess selling price is more about the financial situation for the seller than the market

Just my 8 cent ... ( inflation... )

Cheers !

It's always about supply and demand. Your point is certainly to do with the demand side. People in the market for used equipment are more price sensitive than those looking at new equipment for sure. The demand curve is relatively weak in that case.

More people wanting to sell their KPA used -> More supply. Both of these trends move the price point lower on a used KPA.

Had to look for myself on ebay.

Sure enough, there are plenty that have gone for at or below 1K while there are still quite a few above 1K. Still, looks like selling price from on-line stores for the Rack for instance is around $1300 used.

Personally, I would recommend a used KPA to anyone at that price.

I would agree that the design is getting some years on it now. For the longest time, used units sold very close to the new price. I guess it was only a matter of time until enough used units were on the market that the used prices had to fall (that whole supply and demand thing).

I even saw a rack WITH a FC that went for $750.00. That is a crazy good deal for that fortunate soul.

While I paid ~$1700 for my rack and another $400 for my FC, I feel I have more than received my return on investment and then some. I bought mine in 2013, so I have enjoyed more than 10 years of use. I would never dream of selling though. I guess the used market is going to have to survive without my KPA :).

Quote from Dynochrome

Actually the host was acting impressed, and I was thinking, "Wait until you see what I can do with my "old" Kemper".

What I can do with my "old" Kemper is:

1) Carry my entire guitar rig in one trip from the car (and fit it in a car)

2) Plug-in and setup in 5 minutes

3) Sound great with a level of consistency I was never able to achieve with boutique tube amps and pedal boards

That is where I live when it comes to what I need for a gig-rig

Agree.

For me, there isn't anything on the market that is a match for the existing KPA when it comes to a gig rig. Nothing!

No other device gives me the tone, ease of stage setup, size and weight, and right down usability on stage that the Kemper does.

I don't expect anything to exceed the tone of the KPA (since we are already at the point that any tonal differences are a matter of preference), and currently nothing is even close (IMO) to the gig usability.

I originally had a VHT 4x12 with a VHT 2X12 "Fat Bottom" cab. Playing the Kemper through an amp and to the speakers (PA amplifier used, not a tube amp so not to add/remove anything), what I found is that the VHT cabs create so much of a "tone" themselves that all the profiles have a common "sound" or "color" to them.

I get much better results using a FRFR speaker (DSR112) when I want to play with a group that doesn't have IEM's or enough PA to amplify the Kemper directly with the PA.

With my own PA, I use IEM's for monitoring, and go directly into the PA with the Kemper (no cab or amp on stage). This is by far my preferred setup..... but I don't play lead.

For lead playing, there really isn't a substitute for the air interaction between a local amp/monitor and your guitar strings. For lead players I would recommend the following:

1) Kemper L/R direct into PA

2) Kemper Monitor out to a powered FRFR on-stage pointed at the guitar player

3) IEM's to hear everything and your guitar.

So in my experience, (others may and will disagree) you don't need the power amp or the orange cab :).

Quote from goldensheaf

Everyone wants kemper to be like a effects unit, I love how its more like a amp. Its more like a stand alone amp with loads of toneshaping. Stereo rigs an all that phff. Is there a Soldano forum now were people are saying they want a stereo Soldano. Want stereo? buy 2 powered cabs an run the stereo effects into that

Not everyone.

I think that those of us that play mostly live with the KPA love that it behaves and operates very "amp like".

Those that primarily use the KPA at home for recording tend to want the ultimate routing and efx unit with lots of interfacing capabilities. IMO, this is a use case that the KPA kinda grew into, but has never ben particularly well suited for (by design).

.... but even people that record want the authentic tones you can get from the KPA, they just want the recording interface and routing capabilities of the QC or AxeIIIFx as well.

I suppose there is nothing wrong with wanting it all :).

Take me and others who just want a Kemper Mini. Does nothing for the "at home" user, but for portability and throw-and-go gigging .... amazing!

The reason I keep advocating for a Mini is that it is a much easier lift from the current architecture than making a KPA2 that is a fundamental change from KPA1.

Quote from Wheresthedug

It works that way by design and is highly unlikely to change. The reason being that the Generic Gain covers the full range that the Kemper is capable of. Amp gain is almost always less than the full Kemper gain range. Linking the morph function to Amp Gain would restrict the morphable range unnecessarily. Within the amp’s gain range the two ate linked 1:1 so there is no reason to use the amp gain when the full range of the generic gain could be used.

Based on my playing with LP's, (btw, I still hear "Les Paul" when I see LP ), it seems like more is going on than just changing gain when you change a LP gain. Before LP, when taking a high gain profile and lowering the gain, you frequently lost clarity and the tone would become muddy and not pleasant. After LP, "changing the gain" seems to keep the profile sounding good and all gain levels (much more like a real amp would).

Of course, I could be incorrect (but it didn't sound like it), but it doesn't seem like the LP gain simply limits the gain range .... but maybe it does. Does anyone know for sure?

Seems like we go in circles in this discussion :).

When you break down the KPA product and its competition, seems like things can be broken into 2 markets, and a few categories:

The two markets are Recording and home production, and live gigs.

The categories are:

1) Sound Quality

2) Ease of Use

3) Functionality

4) Marketability

Things like multiple amps, graphical routing (multiple series parallel paths, etc), more effects, etc all go into "Functionality".

Where KPA has shined has always been sound quality and ease of use. For gigging, it has flat out been the best thing on the market (IMO) for quite some time and continues to be to this day. For ease of use, among its completion, it is by far the easiest to use for live work (IMO).

It isn't as marketable as QC or AxeIIIFX. All those shiny color routed screens are tough to compete with for the poor KPA's monochrome non-touch-screen interface.

It isn't as functional as the QC or Axe III FX either. The routing and output capabilities of these products far exceed the KPA.

In the past, I have advocated for a KPA Mini (ie, just scale down into a lower cost market). If anything, I feel like a simple upgrade to a color LCD could greatly improve the marketability of the KPA.

I have always felt that the KPA is a gigging musicians tool. It doesn't need to be pretty, it just needs to sound good and be easy to use live .... and be ROCK SOLID reliable/durable.

It is also great for people who want to record with classic amp sounds but don't want to carry around a truck full of amps.

For those with functionality desires for multiple amps, and advanced series/parallel routing capabilities, I have never felt the KPA is the right tool for that job..... and for me, I don't want it to be.

The KPA workflow (for me) is easy and very "amp like" (for those of us who are classic tube amp setup guys). It has just enough "Digital" work-flow capabilities to be "simple" compared to an entire pedal board of pre and post effects, yet not get crazy confusing in doing so.

I guess what I am saying is that I am not sure I want the KPA2 to deviate too much from the formula it is currently using for success.

I agree that a KPA2 is necessary due to manufacturing constraints. Chips become obsolete and companies just quit making them. Nothing you can do but redesign the product around new parts. If I were the product manager of the KPA I would be thinking about things like:

1) Color LCD - Touch Screen - Soft menu buttons (marketability)

2) Move from a 4 pre / 4 post to "n pre / n post" (functionality)

3) Integrate WiFi and BT into the unit (functionality)

4) Dedicated phone app (ease of use)

5) Advanced tablet app (designed work-flow from ground up for unit operation, not rig management) (ease of use)

6) PC rig manager (ease of use)

The very act of using newer, more powerful, DSP chips would likely give the new KPA2 a sound quality edge over the existing KPA, but I doubt that this would be the reason people would pick the KPA2 over the KPA1.

Keep in mind that at this point, we aren't just talking about a new product. We are talking about a new generation product line. It is likely that the "Cadillac" version would go first .... the Toaster and Foot Controller. After this, the rack, stage, and mini would need to be filled out to complete a full market product line. The existing Kabinet should be interchangeable. It would be a nice touch of the old foot controller was also compatible for those who have existing product and want to upgrade to the KPA2.

Anyway .... those are just my 2 cents

Quote from pippopluto

What I'd like to see:

• Quantization on the looper

All good ones for me too, but ESPECIALLY this one. Maybe you looper pro's can make a perfect loop on the first try, but for the rest of us, a little quantization would make it actually useable live.

I can use it at home, in a situation where if I botch a loop, I can just start over; however, for a live application getting it right even 2 out of 3 isn't anywhere near close enough for a live performance (I might be able to live with 95 out of 100 for a live performance, but even then, not good).

There is always the case for just shelling out the $$$ for the Boss RC600 (really only a little more expensive than the Kemper Remote), but I only want it for a 2 or 3 songs for solo performances, so I don't really want to deal with another large foot controller with a more complex live setup (love my KPA rack and FC for ease of live setup).

Lots of time what sounds GREAT by yourself doesn't CUT with the band. This is especially true for metal.

The fact is, your guitar rig low end is NOT going to compete with the kick and bass that occupy that frequency range in a HUGE way. And really, your guitar shouldn't.

Getting a good mix in a live situation is an exercise in frequency separation. The guitar occupies the mid range of the frequency spectrum in a band (as others have suggested, hi mids are your friend). It is a delicate balance. Keep in mind that the eq bands can CUT as well as BOOST :).

I am not a metal player per se, but I do love my chug when I play something heavy (Enter Sandman, Fuel, etc is about as heavy as I get). Even with metal, try to stay out of the LF below .... say 80-90 Hz. There is plenty of "punch" around these frequencies without getting into the meat of the kick and low notes and sub-harmonics of the bass.

Lots of metal has the bass, kick and guitar hitting the impact points at the same time. For you to be heard, you need to have your guitar eq'd to emphasize frequencies people can hear that don't conflict with the kick and bass.

It won't sound as good by itself when you do this, but just give it a try and see how great it sounds live.

If you want to really play around to see what frequency mix to setup, the morph pedal feature is your friend! Try setting up a parametric eq where you can morph the center frequency of one of the eq channels. Give the channel about 4-6 db of gain (this is ALOT) to about double the volume of that frequency (10db is considered audibly double). Play with the band and move that frequency around in the Mid to high frequency range with your pedal and see how different boosted frequencies sound with the whole band playing.

I think you will be very pleased with the results and you will learn with your own ears what sounds good in the mix!

Quote from V8guitar

Hmm, for me they have it covered with the powered Kabinet.

There seems little advantage of having the power amp in the stage/front of stage, better to be as close to the speaker cab as possible - hence built in to the powered Kabinet.

I have bought the Blackstar Amped 3 for rehearsals and its great but I will have to try to source a long speaker cable, otherwise Im on top of the speaker!

My thoughts exactly.

The powered Kabinet is specifically designed to sound good with the KPA. While you can easily get good sound from a power amp and a cab of choice (although the cab will likely color all your rigs to the point where specific rigs will be needed for each cab you use). Depending on the cab, you may get coloring that over-flavors your rigs. My VHT cabs (both the 2x12 fat bottom and 4x12 slant top) do this to such an extent that it makes all rigs have that specific "flavor" added.

I could have worked to rid the setup from that "flavoring", but I found it easier to just use a FRFR speaker that accurately reproduced the KPA output (made this call in the first week of having my KPA in 2013). If I had it to do today, I would have purchased the powered Kabinet for my stage monitor for those times when I am not using my own systems IEM's OR I am jamming with another band that uses stage monitors vs IEM's.

FWIW, I think you need a physical monitor on stage if you need resonant feedback. IEM's are find for your monitoring of what you are playing, but only air movement will get your strings resonating.

Crap. It's been quite some time since I sold my VHT UL (before Steve sold the company name ). I gotta have this.

Thanks for posting!

Sadly, the most I can come up with is a nice color screen ;).

Of course, I never knew I needed LP either!

Quote from yeky83

The LP gain knob behaves as if there's a bright cap.

Manual:

The authenticity of the [LP] Amp Models is also true for the amp’s Gain control, which will mirror the exact range of the original gain potentiometer, as well as the tonal changes of the attached “Bright Cap”.

No. The non-LP tone controls still function as an amp's tone controls, just a generic one. LP tone controls are not generic, that's the difference.

Have you tried putting a volume boost pedal in front of an overdrive pedal? Depending on how much volume boost you give, the overdrive pedal gets more distorted. And if you give it a ton of volume boost, then the overdrive pedal gets distorted beyond just the distortion it can provide by itself, right? That's basically what's going on. When you turn up the gain into a nonlinear system, you get more distortion.

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As an aside, outside the digital domain, over-driving input stages of different analog (or digital) gear can get you the kind of distortion that you definitely DON'T want. Even the KPA can suffer from this if you over-drive the output (and get the output light to go solid red).

... but yeky83 is right about putting a volume boost in front of either a gain pedal, or the amp. It is no different than EITHER raising the volume on your guitar volume knob OR increasing the gain on the preamp (or pedal). I use this as well as a pure boost in the X slot after the amp to produce a good lead tone from a rhythm tone ( ... well, I also add an eq to boost the mid and mid highs for the lead as well).

The point is, adding volume before the amp mostly just raises the gain.

Quote from yeky83

Right, I never said what you said I said. Glad we cleared that up.

To be clear, I am still saying that for many amps, the volume you play at (not just the gain) makes a big difference in the tone. I do not intend to argue how much of that tone change is due to the power amp tubes vs the cab speakers nor is it really that relevant.

Since the volume you play at makes a difference for the distortion AND LQP does NOT take volume settings into account (only gain), one could argue that for amps where volume effects the tone, the LQP should be taken at a high volume with max gain, or potentially several LQP's should be taken at different volume levels in order to capture the behavior of the amp.

This does not, in any way, reduce the effectiveness of LQP's. I believe this is one of (if not THE) biggest enhancements the KPA has ever had.