Neural guitar synth

Quote from Nikos

This will become big. I mean this whole guitar-synth-modeler-plug in thing. Fractal and Line6 will follow.. it is part of the future ..

I hope the man who did the virus has some big surprise on this matter for all of us in the near future. He should.

Maybe. I’m not so sure though. Guitar synths has been around since the 80’s in various formats. I’ve owned the Axon AX 100 MKII guitar synth for quite some years. It was so awesome and the stuff you could do, was insane. I could pretty much divide the fretboard up in endless combinations and zones and could for instance play all synth and percussion parts from the Ghost Busters song. Intro and everything. Without changing any presets, settings etc. I had everything layered out on the fretboard in different zones and different strings. Tracking was close to perfect with piezo pu’s.

And still….it didn’t really turn into a trend within the guitar world. Only adventurous people like me, who constantly seek new paths and new tech jumped that ship. With the Axon the world of guitar synths finally was able to take it to the next level by great tracking and possibilities that nothing prior to this could possibly match.

So I’m gonna be a bit hesitant regarding the future of guitar synths, since there already has been a solid solution. Unfortunately the company seemed to go bankrupt or something. I’m gonna state that it’s not gonna be something that goes viral in bands. It might be something for people at home to try to avoid playing keys. The bad thing is that you cannot get that keys-feeling on the guitar. It’s usually very weird when playing piano for instance.

But who knows what’s gonna happen. I love all new stuff. I play a “plastic” guitar and ditched wooden guitars, I bough the Kemper when it was released, I had my first digital home recording setup back in 1999, I ditched guitar amps almost 20 years ago, I had the Axon synth, never really had analog guitar pedals and so forth. If this guitar synth leads the way for new cool stuff….awesome. I hope that it will. I doubt it though.

I’ve been playing guitar synth since the Roland GR700 , been using a GR55 since it came out

Quote from whippinpost91850

I’ve been playing guitar synth since the Roland GR700 , been using a GR55 since it came out

Yes….there will always be people who adapt these innovative things. Including myself. My claim is that it probably won’t go mainstream and be something every guitar player suddenly buys and uses. If the Axon didn’t appeal to all guitar players why would this? If the newest Roland doesn’t appeal to every guitar player why would this? I believe it’s gonna be a niche thing as well as the Axon and Roland stuff.

But I welcome all new tech. I love it. Probably not gonna throw myself at this though. Been there and done that.

I had an Axon for a few years. Long enough for me to conclude that what is possible with a guitar as a synth controller is severely limited. You can't do a plausible imitation of piano or organ or most any sound that can be generated with a traditional keyboard. The fact that the guitar has strings is very limiting. Monophonic synth sounds can be done pretty well, but guitar synth is limited in too many ways IMO. The devil is in the details or not in the details in this case.

YMMV

I guess it depends , on your use. I play in classic rock caver bands. And I can cover organs, horns, strings, and harmonica, fairly convincingly

Nikos I don’t know kids who play. But I know a lot of adults though and no one has this. I’ve never heard about this being normal. But that does not mean, that it isn’t. I just highly doubt that statement. I triggered Reason with my Axon. No problem there.

Like I stated earlier. The tech has been here for decades. It has always been a niche thing. I cannot see it suddenly become big. The Axon had all the boxes ticked. And to state that young people has no limits when mixing playing styles, leaves me with one question. Are you saying that people has not done this for 50 years? I mean….the first jazzy/fusion death metal record I know about came out in the early 90’s. People has always experimented. As I see it the only difference is, that today there are a lot more genres to mix than 20 years ago. I don’t see musicians today as more innovative. There has always been people pushing the limits, it they are not the masses.

But I hope that you’re right. Because why not.

lbieber I kinda agree with you. Especially piano and organ sound like crap with a guitar synth. Up until now that is. I have never heard a realistic piano or organ from a guitar synth. Never. I haven’t heard the latest attempts of course. But with that aside the Axon could do some crazy and cool stuff, that absolutely was useable. The way I mapped out almost the entire fretboard with flawless triggered sounds, was so cool.

I used to Roland picks up with a GR for a while. Just for fun and recording some stuff. Tracked fairly well. Still was more of a novelty. When I want synths triggered by guitar I started using the MIDI Guitar 2 plug-in which allows polyphonic tracking and does a pretty decent job as well. Cheap too.

Nikos In Denmark where everything is more expensive than the US and other places besides Norway, the Axon 100 MKII was certainly not expensive. Neither was the Roland stuff, when I looked into it 12-15 years ago. So no…not for the elite regarding money. I bought the Axon from new for under $1.000….here in Denmark where we dream of US prices.

Yes, it was absolutely for the players, that could play really clean. And it still is. I got curious and viewed a few videos of the Midi Guitar 2 on the tube. Hadn’t heard of it before. I see it’s exactly the same thing now as with the Axon, I used 12 years ago. You have to adapt another playing style and play really really soft and clean and the percussive-like sounds of pianos and the like still sounds like those from the 80’s. Still not developed into being anyway near usable. The way they have to stop the chord to strum a new is exactly the same as well.

If that’s the new generation, I see no difference. Of course….the mega reverbed pads-like sounds in the Kemper and in the AXE-FX etc are easier to handle due to them not being so delicate regarding bad playing technique.

But I do agree. It should be a part of the future. I just don’t see it going to be anything but a toy. Unless you only use the pad-like type of sounds. Easier to trigger the patch than a sax, a piano etc. And because of it not being sufficiently developed yet, I don’t see it being anything other than the few, that has always sought new paths. The few, like me, that like to experience and always throw themselves at the new tech out there.

I have personally always sought the future of guitar and recording. I had my first digital studio setup back in 1999 in my room at my parents, when everyone still used tape machines and no one really had this at home. That constant search for the new thing on the market eventually led me to the Axon, the Kemper, guitar not made of wood etc. Had the Axon for a few years. It was fun and nothing more than that. The way the Midi Guitar 2 is tracking today…..15 years after the Axon technology, has not really moved forward. I’m a bit surprised actually. With todays speed of usb, chips etc. I’m surprised that it seems like it still is not possible to do a realistic guitar synth besides the pad-like stuff. The pad type of patches were also very easy to track 15 years ago. A guitar synth, to me, is not just the pad patches, but opens up for the entire selection of sounds on a keyboard/synth and as long as that has not been improved, I can only view this as still being just a toy.

I think it will become a common place to see them in future flagship multi effect units. People will want the units to have them even if they don’t use them personally much, kind of like the Steve Vai-esque wild pitch shifting stuff that’s been common in pricey all ones the last decade aren’t used regularly by the majority of guitarists.
The guitar will always be a popular instrument because of the things that it does uniquely well. But if one is looking to push the boundaries of non guitar sounds, a midi keyboard will always be a superior choice. This is due to the inherent limitations of the guitar: only six strings that can be played by four fingers in whatever combinations are physically possible given the limited stretch of a single human hand. (apologies to right hand tapping possibilities that advanced musicians can do) but the keyboard is superior note for note because one of your hands doesn’t need to be reserved for plucking the notes that you’re holding down with your other hand. You have 10 fingers on two hands and those two hands can be stretched 5 or more feet apart. It’s why you can teach a five-year-old to play single note melodies on a keyboard in a relatively short amount of time. Play the same thing verbatim on a guitar would take vastly more developed skill. Same goes with chords. You can show a person with no experience how to hold down GBD to play a G chord in 30 seconds and watch the same person struggle for weeks to learn how to play the first G chord without it buzzing.

I think they've always been "OK" at best, but still a poor attempt at mimicry. Like transpose in every incarnation I've heard.

Keyboards are amazing tools. 😎

Nikos Bends, vibrato and slides have been possible for at least 15 years. It’s a matter of settings within the unit. It’s just that most of these things sounds bad. Bends and vibrato can be okay though.

You actually say it really good. “Strings have much more ways of expression”. That’s what makes it difficult to transform into synth territory in a convincing way. At least regarding acoustic percussive sounds like piano for instance. Synth leads and pad sounds have always been okay and transform way better and have done so always.

I hear ya….old assh… here as well 🤣. But I still have doubts about this, since technology hasn’t really improved over the last 15-20 years since the Axon appeared with a new method of tracking. And teens have always been there. So has the people that push the boundaries and search for the next big thing and seek new territories, They’ve always had this opportunity, but yet it has never taken off. It’s still a niche thing.

I do agree with you and others, that we will see more of this in future products like AXE FX, Kemper and the like. Kemper has already put in sounds that resemble synth pads. I’m not sure if the AXE FX has taken it a step further and called it a guitar synth. I’m not really interested in that unit. I will go as far as stating, that pad-like synth sounds can/will become useful, as it somehow is easier to reach an acceptable transformation. But sounds of acoustic instruments like sax, piano and the like, is another story. But synth pads and synth leads have always been there and been okay if your playing is very clean and adjusted to the tracking sensitivity. And since it’s always been there, I highly doubt that this will become anything other than a toy.

And I really can’t see what a guitar synth brings to the table, that a keyboard doesn’t. It’s way easier to reach the desired solution with keys. But it’s fun on a guitar nevertheless. It’s fun playing sounds on a guitar, which are not meant for a guitar.

If the guitar is a part of the past. I don’t know if that’s true. We are in an era where electronic music dominates the charts, but people will always go for the guitar. If you like rock, metal, blues etc you will pick up the guitar. And the metal community hasn’t been bigger than it is right now. I’m a metalhead and can tell you that metal festivals appear everywhere now. In my little country almost every city has a metal festival now. It’s crazy….and a sign that guitars will not go anywhere yet.

I don’t know about you, but I’ve heard a lot of keyboard players doing synth leads with a guitar sound, that sound pretty convincingly. The Dream Theater guy for instance just to name a famous musician. But also strings, sax etc. etc. sounds so more realistic with a keyboard using the wheel.

In regards to the music today being dominated by synths. Yes, very true. But why should someone doing beats or electronic music in general select the guitar as a trigger, when a keyboard is far superior? As for now nothing has really changed. The choice has always been there. I tried to with the Axon, but it’s just translating so bad with trigger faults, dynamic playing etc making it weird and not very intuitive. I dumped this idea pretty fast as it easier to turn on the midi controller and experience no BS. I really see no place for this in a professional working environment in regards to beat making. For that the midi controller will be very tough to beat. Guys n gals doing that shit also tend to go the keyboard way anyway. It really makes no sense to me. I can only see it being what it has always been. A niche thing.

Stuff really has to change immensely for it to be more than a niche thing imho. Today it still isn’t near good enough. It might be someday. I’m surprised that nothing has changed with the speed of today’s technology. And then again. Why select an inferior trigger over a superior trigger? The guitar might become okay, but I highly doubt that it will become anything but an inferior trigger compared to a midi controller.

Let’s meet up in 20 years and have a beer and discuss, who was right. The loser will pay ( you of course 🤣 ).