UNDO button always lit when loading new profile

All of a sudden my Kemper has started doing this:

Every time I switch to a different profile, the UNDO button is lit - when I press the UNDO button, the screen briefly displays "MORPHING" - but no morphing is applied to any of the profiles I'm switching between. Also, it has never done this before today (i.e. usually the UNDO button is not lit until I make some change). Haven't changed any settings that I'm aware of.

To try and figure out what's going on I've pressed UNDO/REDO while displaying one by one all the available pages in Rig Editor, and the only thing I've noticed when I press UNDO/REDO is that "Rise Time" and "Fall Time" change - I believe these parameters are to do with morphing, but I have never used them!

Is this a problem? Can I get rid of it?

EDIT: ignore the first two paragraphs here! (the italicized ones) Have since tried this but using Kemper buttons not Rig manager - see explanation in my next post in this thread...

That was one of the first things I tried - doesn't make any difference.

It's literally with any Rig I open the UNDO button is lit. Have scrolled through all the Rigs I regularly used, plus clicked on a bunch of random ones in the 1000's I've got stored in Rig Manger - ones I've tweaked, ones I've never touched, , ones I've just re-saved - makes no difference.

Pressing UNDO doesn't seem to change the sound btw - but as I'm about to edit a bunch of rigs in preparation for some recording, I'm worried this may signify a problem with the Kemper. Maybe it's worth me restoring a backup from USB - or is there anything else I could try to "reset" or get rid of this behavior?

Quote from FlyingSnowman

Do you have an expression pedal connected to the Kemper? Maybe that's controlling the morphing and causing the changes?

I do, but I haven't changed any setting here. If I go into system settings, and move the expression pedal up and down, I can see the bars moving corresponding to wah/volume/pitch, but the bar associated with morphing does not move, hence I have no reason to think it's affecting this. Also, as said, the profiles do not have any morphing stored in them.

EDIT: have also tried disconnecting the expression pedal and two-way switch, but UNDO still lights up all the time!

Quote from Burkhard

Check, what happens, if you store/replace the Rigs in question and then load these again.

Contrary to what I said earlier, this does actually stop the UNDO button lighting up, at least in the Rig I have re-saved ("replaced") - previously I just resaved using Rig Manager, which didn't make any difference, but I tried loading up the the Kemper without connecting to my computer - the UNDO button still lit up for all profiles, but yes, if I hit the store button, and "replace", then UNDO is no longer lit when I load that particular profile. But so do I now have to go through and re-save all my profiles? And why did it start doing this in the first place? Maybe I should just load a backup from USB and then recopy all my favourite profiles from Rig Manger?

Quote from Burkhard

This might have something to do with transitions which happen behind the scenes. Sometimes we introduce new features which require an enhanced Rig data format. Older formats get migrated when Rigs get loaded, which could trigger the "E". If you store such a migrated Rig, the migrated state becomes permanent. Next time you load that Rig, no migration is needed.

Not sure I entirely understand what you mean by migrated state etc. - but anyway, info much appreciated, sounds like it's nothing serious - i.e. nothing that indicates a problem with my Kemper, or anything that could affect the sound.

Have a bit more info tho - since my last post I went ahead and restored a recent backup from USB. Sure enough, the problem went away! Scrolled thru the rigs on my kemper, clicked a bunch of random rigs in RM, no UNDO button lit. HOWEVER... when I then went back to the profile I was editing when I first noticed this problem, all of a sudden the UNDO button came on as soon as I loaded it... Fearing the worst, I went back to some other profiles, but thankfully this time the UNDO light went away as soon as I loaded something else. I then went back to the "problem" profile, which is from a commercial pack released about a year ago (I can name the pack if it helps, but unsure if forum rules forbid this outside of the commercial profiles section?) and noticed all of the profiles in that pack loaded with the UNDO button lit. So - as these profiles are currently only stored in Rig Manager, and RM's "Store" button is not available until you've made some change, I loaded the one I was working on, hit "UNDO", then "REDO" on the kemper, then was able to hit "Store" in Rig Manager. As you said, now when I load this profile, the UNDO button no longer lights up. More importantly, all my other profiles are still fine - can load them as normal without the UNDO button lighting up on them too.

This does suggest though that something "went wrong" previously - for this "migrated state" to be mapped onto all my other profiles (1000's...), both stored on the Kemper itself and in Rig Manager. Surely this is not normal?

Anyway, as said, sounds like this was not a serious problem, just a minor annoyance, and I do seem to have fixed it now with the backup restore.

But it if you or anyone else has any ideas what previously caused the UNDO button to suddenly become lit across ALL profiles, it'd be useful to know to stop this happening again!

Btw, it's not the first time I've used the profile pack mentioned above, or the first time I've edited profiles from it - so something must have been different this time, maybe something I set, or the sequence in which I set/saved things, or recent updates to software?

Quote from Burkhard

Another trigger for "E" could be locking. If you for example lock module C and load any other Rig, this will now appear with an "E", which is logical, because what you hear and potentially store is now different compared to the formerly stored version of the Rig. So practically the Rig is edited.

It wasn't that - I did think to check this, and only Input was locked - unlocked this too just in case, but no change.

Besides, when I hit the UNDO button, the screen displayed "Morphing", and I hit UNDO/REDO while looking at each available page in Rig Manger, and the only thing that was changing was rise and fall time in system settings.

And as said, once I'd got it back to normal (after restoring a backup), I noticed that although the UNDO button was no longer lit on every profile, all the rigs in the profile pack I'd been going thru when I first noticed the problem still loaded up with the UNDO light on (and again, I could observe rise and fall time changing in systems settings when I hit UNDO/REDO) - tho this time, it didn't "infect" all of my other profiles with the lit UNDO button plague!

So it makes sense what you said about some profiles created with a different version of the Kemper software might need to be "migrated"/resaved - presumably there's something about this particular profile pack (which is about a year old) that causes them to load up requiring a resave before the UNDO button goes off - but why loading these profiles yesterday caused ALL my other profiles to then load with the UNDO button lit (and again, I could observe the rise and fall times changing in system settings when I hit UNDO/REDO) - that's the mystery...

But if there's no logical explanation, I'll assume it was a "freak accident" so to speak - something for some reason caused the Kemper's firmware to get corrupted or similar. So far, today, working with the same profiles, I've had no problems - touch wood!!

I might have found a way of reproducing this problem... Been tweaking a few more profiles (which all happen to be bass simply because it's that stage of the recording process) and I've notice a few more that load up with the UNDO button lit, and all for the same reason - i.e. "Morphing" displays if you hit UNDO and you can observe the rise and fall time time change in system settings as you hit UNDO/REDO.

Some of these are from Rig Exchange - e.g. the profile "Rusty Box 07" from "Matthew Cusano" - could Burkhard (or anyone else) try loading that profile and see if what I describe happens?

And then, if you get the same thing with the UNDO button, maybe it might be possible to figure out why this "spread" to all my profiles? Though I'm still presuming that was some freak error, as since restoring the backup the other day, everything is back to normal, despite since having loaded a fair few profiles that trigger that have this Morphing UNDO thing when you load them.

Thanks!

Quote from musicmad

I have this as well. Generally found the undo button very unpredictable but that could be user error.

Is it the same thing where if you hit UNDO, the screen displays "Morphing" briefly? If so, do you also notice rise and fall time changing on the system settings tab of Rig manager? And is it all your rigs, or just a few?

btw, someone at the end of this thread mentions the same thing also: UNDO button funcionality