EQ in pedal slot to "fix" profiles designed using different pickups?

Is using an EQ in one of the fx slots before the amp module the key to "fixing" profiles that were designed using different pickups? e.g. taming profiles that sound too harsh/muddy, not because they were badly profiled, but because the guitar used to profile them had darker/brighter pickups. And if others do this, what do you favour, graphic or studio?

I feel like there's only so much you can manipulate the amp stack EQ before it sounds wrong - so generally I've just hunted through profiles till I find one with an almost perfect tonal balance already. However, I found a lead tone which had something about it that was too good to pass up, even though it sounded too harsh and there wasn't much I could do to fix it with the stack EQ - so tried a graphic EQ in an effects pedal slot, applied some quite drastic boosts to lows and cuts to highs, and ended up with an amazingly well balanced tone. I presume the profile in question was designed using darker pickups, and what I've effectively done is EQ my guitar - so the signal going into the amp is tonally more similar to the one used while profiling it.

Have never felt the need to use EQ pedals with real amps - but I guess this is a different situation - anyway, it did the trick!

Quote from Wheresthedug

rather than use an EQ in a Stomp slot try switching the Stack EQ to the Pre position. This will put it n front of the gain structure like a Mesa Mark Series amp. Any changes to the EQ here will have a dramatic effect on the gain character rather than a major change to the perceived EQ of the profile.

I've been trying this today actually! Didn't get quite as good results as with the graphic EQ, but that's presumably because the stack EQ is much broader strokes, while the graphic EQ affords more detail.

Also tried a similarly-set graphic EQ after the amp (x-slot), just to make sure I couldn't achieve the same results with post EQ - for a start I had to re-tweak the EQ settings, but even after that, it just didn't sound as good - having the EQ change how the amp is driven seems to be the difference.

I'm sure I'm not the first person to figure this out, but I just haven't heard it discussed much, and so far (have now tried it on several profiles) it seems to be the best way I've found of solving the problem of profiles not quite working due to being designed with a different guitar.

Quote from DonPetersen

nope

Definition is.

hth

I should have probably said - what I'm talking about is in addition to (and after) tweaking all the available parameters in amp and cab section. These parameters are all fairly broad-stroke parameters, and are definitely the first things to tweak. And yes, definition is the very first control I reach for when loading any new profile.

What I'm talking about goes above and beyond this - try tweaking definition etc to perfection, and then add a graphic EQ in a stomp slot and carefully set it band by band. It's "fine-tuning", sure, but you might be surprised at what a difference it makes!

hth

Quote from DonPetersen

it's a common enough approach - works well if you know what you're doing and you are shaping your tone in context - otherwise it can be a recipe for desaster.

Good to know, because a few posts back your feelings on it seemed to be more along the line of a flat "nope"...

It's certainly true that EQ can cause more harm than good if misused!

The revelation for me was what a difference it made EQ-ing before the amp as opposed to after - presumably something to do with how the signal drives different EQ ranges of the profile. And my theory is that this helps to match the tone going in to the one used while profiling - clearly even between similar pickups (e.g. two different makes/models of humbucker) there is significant tonal difference, or enough anyway to radically alter the result, and I think this probably accounts for why so many people are disappointing by profiles they buy not sounding like the audio demos - i.e. the signal going in makes far more difference to the tone than anything you can do to the sound afterwards (EQ-ing post amp is certainly also needed btw, but there's only so much you can EQ a bad sound into a good one). Probably also accounts for why people often say they far prefer profiles they create themselves over commercial ones - it's likely not because they're e.g. mic'ing up the amp better, but that the input signal remains the same for both profiling and playing the resulting profile.

And as said in a previous reply, I'm sure I'm not the first to figure this out - but in the discussions I've seen of profile-tweaking techniques (and why audio demos often sound so different than when you connect your own guitar), I've not seen this specific suggestion made. For me, it's made all the difference - takes already-good profiles to a whole other level!

Quote from DonPetersen

a lot also comes from the setup of the pickup:
distance to strings / bass/treble angle

it's amazing how much you can do tone-wise with just a screwdriver and your ears

I also have the impression that quite a few users are not happy with what their pickups are doing in their guitars and constantly have to fight this.

Again, agreed, but already covered. Badly adjusted pickups is not the problem I'm trying to solve here.

Just to add two things:

1) Have been experimenting more today, and I'd definitely advise setting the main stack EQ first - do as much as possible with this, then add a graphic EQ stomp as a last step to fine tune the response of the profile to your pickups. I tried the other way around, leaving stack EQ flat, and setting the graphic EQ stomp first, and ended up with a very harsh un-natural sound (even after then smoothing it out somewhat with the stack EQ). I guess this is the sort of "desaster" DonPeterson mentioned earlier!! BUT if you get the profile sounding as nice as possible using the various amp/cab parameters and the stack EQ, then add a graphic EQ in a stomp slot (or studio EQ would work too of course), this really seems to add that final bit of detailed control over the tone that can really take it to another level. Whether or not it is indeed compensating for a difference in pickups as I surmised, or it's just a great tone-shaping tool that I'd hitherto neglected, I don't know. But it works! And any other EQing tips along these lines much welcome - I'm sure there are other still tricks like this I'm missing, or ways of refining this method more.

2) I have no idea why this thread was moved from "Share Tips and Tricks" to "Third Party rigs discussion..." OK, so I'm talking about refining the sound of commercial profiles to fit different pickups than they were profiled with - but it's not a direct discussion of 3rd party profiles like virtually every other thread in this section... It's literally sharing a tip/trick! And as I'm obviously after any feedback that might help me refine this tip/trick, I can't help but think this is far less likely now it's in the 3rd party rigs discussion forum... Oh well...

Quote from DonPetersen

you mentioned a commercial seller in your 1st post.

Ah, fair enough - have now removed the reference as it wasn't really relevant, had only included it as a matter of interest. Same tip/trick applies to any profile (even ones you create yourself I suppose - e.g. if you want to use with different guitar or just refine the tone). Any chance of going back into the forum section where I'm more likely to get some feedback on this?

btw, have now applied this method to a bunch of different profiles - is really working some magic! I mean I've been getting great sounds out of the Kemper since the day I bought it - and the more I've experimented with the parameters, the more "perfect" these tones have become - but until I tried eq-ing the signal going into the profiles, I thought I'd got it sounding as good as it could - not so! - turns out it's possible to make them even better

Thanks!