Robrecht Floorboarder #1

Hi! Glad my posts were able to help!!

It sounds like morphing would be perfect for what you want to do: set the base value for a parameter in the unmorphed state of the rig, then set the target value in the morphed state, then use MIDI CC#11 to sweep between the two states.

You can morph as many parameters as you like at the same time, or at least anything that can be changed continuously (so most parameters, except things with discrete on/off states). Just activate the morphed state of the rig and tweak whatever you want to a different value from the unmorphed state. Sweeping between both states will 'fade' between the two values for all those parameters.

An alternative, if you're already using morphing for something else, would be to delve into NRPN control of the specific parameters you want to automate. The list is in the MIDI Parameter Documentation, you can find it under http://www.kemper-amps.com/downloads/5/User-Manuals. It's a little more complicated, though, and I'm not well-versed in NRPN, so I can't help with that...

Best of luck!

Hey! Thanks for your comments, it really makes me happy to hear about Kemper4Live in the wild!

As for your issue, it IS strange. I haven't got my Kemper plugged in right now but I've just monitored the MIDI coming out of Kemper4Live and it looks good. The 1-5 buttons use MIDI cc's 50-54, which is a pretty foolproof method for slot selection in my experience; each button sets its corresponding cc to 1 and the others to 0, as they should. So... I'm stumped, especially since everything else works.

Are you using the very latest version? I suppose you are if you found it in my thread on the forum here, but just to make sure: the latest version doesn't contain the Kemper logo anymore and now says "unofficial midi controller".

Could you give this Ableton Live 10 project a try? It's a simple midi track I made that should just switch through the performance slots by sending the cc's directly, without my Max4Live device (don't forget to point the track to your MIDI output!). That should tell us if your Kemper is responding to MIDI correctly.

Oh this is great. Yes! I tried your project and the MIDI information is switching between the rigs in the performance slot correctly. Glad to know it's not an issue with the kemper itself.

Any thoughts on what to try next?

On further testing, I even brought in your MIDI test track into my default session, and it still works. But even after dragging the most updated Kemper4Live device into the same MIDI track, I still have the same issue. Weird!

Haha, I was secretly hoping it wouldn't work so the problem would be something else, preferably something easily fixable.

No, kidding, of course I'm glad it's not your Kemper. But I have no idea what the Max4Live device could be doing wrong then, especially since you've tested the MIDI clip in the same session. I mean, as far as I can see, the device is outputting exactly the same MIDI messages.

Actually, you could check that for yourself on your system: in the Live test session I've sent you, the MIDI track contains a "MIDI Monitor" device. If you drag the Kemper4Live device in front (so, to the left) of that and then click the 1-5 buttons, it should show the MIDI they output. Each click should generate a series of five cc's, 50-54. Their values should be 0, except for the one corresponding to the respective slot, which should be 1. So clicking on slot 1 should generate:

50   1

51   0

52   0

53   0

54   0

It would really surprise me if you got a different result than I just did on my computer, but it's just something else to rule out.

I can't test anything on my own Kemper right now, but I will as soon as I can, hopefully tomorrow. In the meantime, if I think of something, I'll let you know.

Appreciate you man, no rush!

I've done exactly this, both with the new device and your 2017 version, and I seem to get the same information in the MIDI Monitor that you're describing above. The Kemper also displays the MIDI receive signal in all cases. I'm attaching a video link in case that helps.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3l3r…ro/Kemper%20Test.mov?dl=0

I can't imagine why the same MIDI information being transmitted on the same channel isn't being read the same way. I also tried a completely different computer and a different MIDI->USB cable just in case, and same problem. Could it actually be the Kemper/Profiler updates somehow? Or maybe it's not liking having 5 midi ctl signals sent at once, vs. just 2 in the test session? I have no clue, just spitballing here haha.

Thanks again man you're seriously going above and beyond.

Hey, thanks for your message!

We're still using the LP-16. It's a solid device, I don't think it's ever failed us in its basic functions yet.

(We've had some trouble with the midi channel for our programmed stage lights; it's a much denser, continuous data stream than our guitar effects automation, and at one point it seemed like not all messages were coming through, but that was solved after we updated to the latest firmware. Meanwhile, our programmed guitar effects changes have always worked perfectly.)

As a dedicated device, it's more dependable than a phone or even a laptop, and having sixteen mono wav tracks is great. One for the click and two for stereo synths leaves you with a lot of room for extras; in most songs, we've added the individual guitar, bass and drum tracks from our demo recordings in there as well, so if one of us can't make it to rehearsal, we can easily be "replaced" by simply running an additional cable to from the LP-16 to the mixer.

The only thing that's a bit frustrating is that Cymatic's support isn't great. They have a forum that's not very active; feature requests seem to have little chance of becoming reality. That's ok, the machine is fine as it is, but one thing that I really miss is midi clock: the LP-16 doesn't do anything with the tempo in the midi file, so you can't sync your Kemper's delays etc. to it. That simply means that all delay tempos have to be set explicitly in the Kemper. No big deal, just something to keep in mind.

Thanks so much for getting back to me with your thoughts and experiences. I appreciate your balanced view. You are so helpful!

Good to know about the lighting too. I was wondering if you could also program that through the same midi track you use for your Kempers. That is an extra, exciting thing to think about, although I admittedly have a lot to learn about lighting. What lighting software do you guys use?

Also you mentioned no midi clock. Can you still manually create automation to tempo (say, wah or volume sweeps)?

Also, I’d love to know the name of your band so I can check it out if you’re open to sharing!

Thanks again man.

Our drummer developed a custom lighting device using an Axoloti circuit board (he does custom performance lighting for a living) and a lot of LED strips. It takes incoming midi for the RGB values of each of the lights. There may be off-the-shelf midi-to-lighting solutions too, I'm not sure.

The LP-16 can play one midi file per song, but a single midi file can contain lots of different tracks addressing 16 different midi channels, so you can just put everything in there! Apart from the lights and my Kemper, we also use it for automating our other guitar player's Boss GT-100.

So about tempo:

* Even though the LP-16 doesn't send out midi clock information, you still have to set the tempo and time signature (and any changes occurring during the song) in the midi file. That way you can synchronize everything with the click and the backing track. For instance, if you set song to be in 4/4 at 74bpm, and you program a change on the first beat of the 17th measure, that defines the exact moment in time where you want the change to occur.

* You're probably already preparing your backing tracks in a DAW, so that provides all the timing information you need for the midi tracks (riff B starts at measure x etc.).

* That way, you can definitely program things to tempo! You could draw a volume (CC#7) curve that peaks at every first and third beat of a measure, for instance.

* The length of each song in the LP-16 is determined by the shortest audio (wav) file, so if for some reason your click track is shorter than your synth track, playback will stop at the end of the click track. Likewise, if you program a midi event to occur right at the end of the song, make sure that all audio files for that song are long enough, or the LP-16 will stop before that. (I'm mentioning this because we recently had a bit of a head-scratcher where the final midi command didn't come through, and it turned out I'd accidentally made one of the wav files half a second shorter than the others.)

My band is called My Lament, here's a video:

What's your band called?

Woah-- that's awesome!!! Love the 360 video and dig the song and lighting. Super cool, all-around! Any chance you guys have any t-shirts for sale? I went ahead and gave you a Like on Facebook

Also really helpful to know the Cymatic goes with the shortest file (seems counterintuitive to me, but alas...).

I just set up my first Kemper MIDI track and it's magical! haha Even started drawing out wah sweeps.

I did notice the control changes seem to be just a touch slow (nothing crazy), but I ended up putting them three or so sixteenth notes before the 1 to get the change to go smoother. But I figure that's just part of it...the information has to have time to get from one place to the next.

Anyways, I really have to thank you again for all of your help. Your posts in this forum made this process so much faster and less intimidating.

If there's some way I can send some support back your way, let me know!

Hey man, thanks for your like! We're looking into T-shirts, I'll update you when we get some!

Yeah, magical, that was my first reaction too when I got everything working. It's been a total game changer for me live. Combining vocals with guitar, there's already so much to think about and coordinate, and I don't consider the whole "pedal dance" as a meaningful part of my performance like working the mic or playing my guitar is. It's always awkward and just another thing that can go wrong on stage... Automating it allows me to just focus on the music and interacting with the audience.

If you notice that all control changes are delayed by the same amount of time, the LP-16 has the option to offset the timing of the midi track in relation to the audio. I've never used it (I don't notice the delay, frankly) but it should work.

Hello!

A stupid answer would be "just save the slot after you've changed something", but you're talking about what you might call "performative" modifications, right? Things you might do while playing live, when you can't just go to the Kemper and press "Store", like turning effects on and off.

Anyway, if I recall correctly, the Kemper handles this differently depending on whether you're using the arrow buttons on the device itself to switch between performance slots, or using midi. When you switch back and forth between slots using the arrow buttons on the Kemper, all unsaved changes are remembered until you move to a different Performance. But when you switch using midi, the slots always return to their original saved state.

The reasoning behind this is explained in the Manual:

Quote from the Kemper Manual

• While you manually navigate through the Slots within one Performance using the left and right RIG navigation cross buttons, any modifications e. g. loading another Rig or cranking up gain are interpreted as editing and will be maintained until you move to another Performance. Don’t forget to store before you load another Performance in order to make those modifications permanent.
• As soon as you load another Slot from your foot controller any former modifications within that Performance are interpreted as temporary tweaks during a live performance and get discarded immediately. If you had for example activated a booster in B Module or increased Delay Mix via pedal, such changes are forgotten, if you switch Slots remotely. This way you can always be sure, that Slots get loaded in their original predictable state during live performances.

So I'm afraid that's just how it works... :-/

Hi, wow, really cool that my tool is being used live! We switched to a non-laptop setup shortly after I developed it, so I only use it at home myself.

I'm not in my home studio right now but I'm thinking about your question... I've always used Kemper4Live in arrangement mode, and I use the global track automation controls in the track header (the drop-down menus under the track name) rather than those in the midi clip envelope window. So hopefully that's where you'll find them.

I'm not that familiar with using automation in session mode, but I guess that since session mode is more clip-based, it makes sense that the automation controls are moved inside the clips there.

Oh damm ! That was it ! I had to press "A" to show automations.... Thank you very much Rob, your tool rules. Stop thinking about tap delays and stuffs when you play and sing in the same time is a relief. I even set much more precise guitar tonesfor each part as I don't have to remember where they are in the Kemper. Thanks again ! Bye !

Hi, sorry for not replying earlier, I didn't even realize I have a "wall" here. Unfortunately, I can't solve your question, as I've never experienced anything like that myself. I guess your USB to midi gear may indeed be the problem...