Posts by Michael_dk

Quote from Freshwing

In the world of digital "amps" there is a difference between modelling and profiling/Cloning.

That's just semantics.

But my point was mainly that when Christoph talks about "modeled tone stacks", my strong guess is that they have taken a more economical approach than modeling each component of each tone stack. My money would be that they have done something similar to what they've done with the kemper drive; built a model that can cover a lot of ground and then based the specific tone stacks models on that.

I don't get where all these ideas about what liquid profiles are about comes from (not just in this thread).

I'm guessing not all people have seen the interview with Christof.

By the way, when something is called "a model of" doesn't say anything about HOW it is modeled (e.g. all component modeled or not). It is simply something that represents a thing without it being the thing itself (and I can't even remember if this should go in this thread or one of the other recent ones - sorry).

I'd guess this is some kind of proprietary technique. I don't thin Kemper would do component-level modeling, that's just not how they have done things so far (supposedly). Although I'm sure they have looked at the schematics in the process.

Quote from V8guitar

2) There is some "magic" with dedicated external gear. Whether this is real or perceived doesn't matter, perception is reality, so people will defend this to the death. Nuno recently commented that he uses a Rat pedal with no additional gain or tone because it adds a tightness...and went on to comment that no one else hears it. Is that real or perceived? Doesn't matter, he needs it so its real and so will see it as essential.

...And even if it is just perceived and not reality - it's still worth it if it makes you more confident in your tone, because you will play better (I think this is probably already implied in what you wrote)

Quote from alligatorlizard

I've said this before, but Liquid Profiling is either one of two things:

1) Simply a custom EQ (with EQ points and curves matching the amp in question's tone stack) placed before or after the profile. This will be nice, but nothing revolutionary. We can already apply custom EQ with studio EQ (pre or post profile), or really detailed EQ in the DAW (post profile). This still won't make the profile really respond to EQ like a real amp, as most tone stacks are between pre and post amp (hence interact with gain)

2) Something deeper - if they've come up with something that can interact with the gain structure of the profile in the same way EQing a real amp does, then this could be great. Fingers crossed...

One thing is for sure - there's no way they can actually insert the tone stack between pre and post amp stages (e.g. as most modern modelers do) to achieve this. Even a direct profile is the sound of the whole amp, you can't separate pre and post amp stages like you could with a modeled amp. So if Liquid Profiling is option 2, it would have to be something whereby the gain structure of the profile is altered "after the fact" (i.e. an "artificial" adjustment of the gain structure that was originally profiled). Could work tho. The existing definition knob does something like this, but in a very broad stroke.

And if anyone in the know could comment on which of these 2 options it is, that would be great!

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Not in the the know as such, but that has never held me back before....

I think it's option 2 (to whatever extent it is modeled; I'm sure there will be debate as to whether 100% authenticity has been achieved).

And I agree on your considerations following the two options.

It would be cool, but I think modeling this is a long way off. I think it is much more complex. I do like the idea though.

But I'm sure some sellers will shift to offering more in the way of "IR packs" (not IRs but profiles).

Quote from Steve5478

I don't think so....Rather the opposite...I even ask myself if profiles sellers won't only provide us one rig per amp in the future ?!

It should be possible and should be done like this. They won't have to spend time to set and profile every/many amp's tone possibilties cause LP will do it....They will just have to afford us a good profile with gain information and we will have the possibility to set how we want our rigs....

I agree to an extent - but I think in reality it will not turn out that way over the long run.

If Liquid Profiles fully do what they are intended to do, then we might only need one amp profile. But that might shift the focus to cabs and mics and mic placements.

And I guess if the person doing the profiles don't just "blindly" vary the mic placements, then the optimum sound may require some tweaking on the amp controls for each given mic/cab/placement choice.

It will be interesting to see which business the different profile sellers move into.

Even so, liquid profiling I guess wouldn't work with pedals in front of the amp, so there is still that factor to consider.

Quote from lbieber

Not sure I agree. If LP provided any substantial improvement, salesmen would be leveraging it for more $. I can imagine it "For only $x.99 you can purchase the knob settings so that you too can achieve the unparalleled benefits of liquid profiling."

I think this will quickly become an expected feature of profile packs. I think it kind of already may be expected. And in that case, such a business model would stick out like a sore thumb. Regardless, we can't judge the value of the feature by how profile sellers may or may not decide to operate.

Quote from BayouTexan

Honestly, I am finding selecting the right profiles to fit in a mix as a bit of an art. It seems like the EQ is a necessity since there doesn't seem to be a plug-n-play profile I've come across. Just wondering if that is what's generally done. Is it okay to be dependent on EQing a profile afterwards or is there other ways to make a profile work that I am missing?

Absolutely OK! Find a profile that gets you in the ballpark, and then adjust to the rest of the arrangement and instrumentation. The person doing the profile doesn't know the sound of your drums, bass, vocals, how they play together etc etc.. So if you can get by without mix-time adjustments you are a very lucky man

Quote from lbieber

Two of the main 3rd party profilers didn't express much praise or excitement in the video focused on LP. That fact is revealing to me.

Of course not.

One, they already profile the amps (supposedly) at the settings where they think the amp sounds the best.

Two, the selling point of "I've profiled this amp to capture each sweet spot" is somewhat watered down if the idea is that you can get by with just ONE profile as long as it is "liquified". So a new selling point might be shifting toward more different mic positions, which is way more work.

Quote from lbieber

I would argue that it can't be game changing if the tone is not improved.

I would argue otherwise. This is a game changer for me (provided that it works as advertised).

As far as the original video goes, what I noticed the most is that C Kemper himself seemed to argue that he didn't see the need for this, but it was done due to user requests. I really don't think he oversold it in any way.

Quote from Wheresthedug

It is no different than micing and recording a real amp in the old days.

Well, the difference is that when micing and recording in the old days you knew what the rest of the instruments sounded like, which you don't when making profiles for others to use

Quote from DonPetersen

mic'ing a guitar cabinet is a bit of an art.
some use multiple mics (ribbon + condenser is a popular choice) others can even get a great sound out of a single dynamic mic.

...And it's often a tradeoff, I think - for example, in order to get the top end "right" (for your tastes), maybe other frequencies are less than ideal. The best compromise is the one where it is possible to shape the sound towards the ideal afterwards without losing the character you're after.

Quote from BayouTexan

Does anyone know how most profiles are made? In the mix or outside the mix? Or am I doing it wrong? Wouldn't profiling in a mix be the preferred way?

Definitely outside the mix. Some people though have a good ear for how to record an amp for a given song, which is a different process.

But even so, when making profiles you don't know which songs the profiles will be used for - which arrangement? Which other instruments? What will the bass sound be like? Will the drums (cymbals and hi-hat) be what should dominate the top end, or will the guitar?

Apart from that there are of course the people who profile the amp sounds they like when playing without other instruments going on, as you say.

Quote from scottbarbercmk

I have seen that this option is possible now. How exactly do we refine existing profiles? There are some great bass DI profiles I've captured that I'd like to refine with different instruments. Thank you

You can only do it during the original session with the amp hooked up and everything. You can profile, store, refine, store the new result, refine again, store that new result again and so forth.

So it can't be done after the fact as such.

Quote from Dynochrome

I believe the OP wants a starting point without all the variables like pickups ,wood, considered. Just to be able to build profiles quickly out of your pool from whoever and have them all be very close. Perception could be adjusted with a clean sense like tool. And Yes, I would be OK with normalized to a reference tone... it would be way closer than things can be now.

I remembered that there was something about this in the manual, so I googled it. It came up with this ancient post from the forum:

Automatic Volume Leveling

I also remember some profile vendors having increased (or decreased) rig volume by use of stomps and in the cab section (the latter option I think has been removed for some time now - maybe).

I'm not saying it can't be done - but how to account for different guitars having different outputs, different frequency response between profiles etc etc...?

I guess the profiles could be normalized to a reference like pink noise or a 1kHz sine I just don't think that gives you what you want.

But maybe I shouldn't try to answer a question to Kemper - especially since this is a feature request

ping vtgearhead

I recently saw someone in a thread talking about having that particular amp - I believe.

I THINK it may have been the one with people's wish lists for liquid profile tone stacks, one of the recent posts (within a day or two)

Hahaha, this matches exactly what I expect from ChatGPT - generalities and truisms that don't REALLY answer the question in a helpful way .

Quote from EdRaket

Thank you all for comments. It confirmed my suspicion that there is not a global ‘gain control’ parameter that I can use. I will try at first with the volume knob of my guitar and in case this affects the tone too much, I will make a 2nd set of the performances adjusted for my 2nd guitar. Thanks for all advice and enjoy the day.

There is, as has been pointed out. It's called dist sense (and, I believe, clean sense) in the input menu. You can lock the input section so the settings don't change when you change profiles. You can also save presets for the input section for easy recall.

Think of the two controls as offsets rather than absolute values.

Quote from Camzouille

I get what you're saying, it might just be what i was explaining right up with the RC600 on instrument level that doesn't amplify the signal enough for it to be at a normal volume.
But if it's that, i'd rather buy something to amplify my turntable and then put it into my RC 600 on line level (since it's amplified before) right ?
If that's the case, i already got the old amp that goes with the turntable, but the Outputs are old (non amplified) speakers wires, like you know the little red and black that goes in. I guess i can put a jack or something at the end of it, but i'm not sure about that.

I'd probably buy an inexpensive RIAA pre-amplifier (don't know what they cost, and don't have any experience with them - but I assume you can get something fairly cheap that outputs line level).

Please note that I am guessing that your turntable doesn't have RIAA EQ curve (output) correction built in, since it has no amplification itself. The RIAA equalization is sort of a tilt EQ that is used for LPs specifically - removes a lot of low end and boosts high end in the recording before the LP is cut (simplifying a bit). That reverse of that EQ curve is needed in order for the sound to be as intended. That is beyond just boosting the signal by a "regular" amplifier, because in that case you'd still be down -20dB at 20 Hz and up +20dB at 20kHz.

I'm leary of recommending anything regarding the output of the amplifier into 6.3 mm jack - only because you mention the word "speaker", so I will not say anything there

In any case, even if those outputs are line level, there may be issues with noise.