NOW you tell us!
The true answer will reveal itself, it's somewhere.....
What exactly does Definition (really) do?
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One way to check is to record a DI track. Send that track back for reamping. Take a profile, and record a track with the definition as stored. Record another track with the definition around 3-4 or so. Record another couple of tracks at 7 and 10.
Do a tone match EQ to see what's happening with the EQ compared to the original track.
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The true answer will reveal itself, it's somewhere.....
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'Overtones can be any frequency, so long as its above the fundamental. So, a harmonic is an overtone, but an overtone doesn't have to be a harmonic.'
This is not correct: there is a specific order in the overtone series.
Each instrument can have some of those overtones louder than others, which is the reason why the tone of different instruments playing the same note vary,
but overtones are all positionned at very specific locations:
Note -> 1st overtone up an octave-> 2nd overtone up a fifth from 1st- > 3rd overtone up a fourth from 2nd-> 4th overtone up a major third from 3rd ...etc
Harmonics are overtones. -
Harmonics are overtones
Which is something I said.
Overtones don’t have to be harmonics….its physics.
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Which is something I said.
Overtones don’t have to be harmonics….its physics.
My comment was about "overtones can be any frequency"
I may misunderstand you, but overtones are set frequencies that exist above the fondamental.
Based on the fundamental they are very clearly positionned at set intervals, not in a random fashion... -
Harmonics are set frequencies above the fundamental. Overtones are not.
It's in their definitions. Harmonics have set frequencies. Overtones are *any* frequency above the fundamental.
The correct therm is harmonic sequence (or series), although overtone sequence (or series) is often used interchangeably. Regardless, the two words describe similar - but decidedly different - things.
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Harmonics are set frequencies above the fundamental. Overtones are not.
It's in their definitions. Harmonics have set frequencies. Overtones are *any* frequency above the fundamental.
The correct therm is harmonic sequence (or series), although overtone sequence (or series) is often used interchangeably. Regardless, the two words describe similar - but decidedly different - things.
Completely disagree.
The first search that you'll do on the overtone series will clearly show that the overtone series is set at mesurable, set nodes.
You're wrong, sorry.
Unless, by that, you mean that one is free to choose which fundamental to start with, which will determine at what pitch each of the overtones will resonate.
But that is also the case with harmonics, so i don't see the point. -
This is not fuzzy science...
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Nothing fuzzy at all. It’s math.
Either we’re misunderstanding each other, and we’re saying the same thing, or one of us is wrong.
I don’t much care which (or who).
If I’m the one that’s wrong, fine. But I do not see that right now….
“Overtone” is a term generally applied to any higher-frequency standing wave, whereas the term harmonic is reserved for those cases in which the frequencies of the overtones are integral multiples of the frequency of the fundamental.”
Sound - Overtones, Frequency, WavelengthSound - Overtones, Frequency, Wavelength: Another term sometimes applied to these standing waves is overtones. The second harmonic is the first overtone, the…www.britannica.comOr…
“A harmonic is any of the integral multiplication of the fundamental frequency.“
What is the difference between an overtone and a harmonic? | SocraticHarmonic versus Overtone. A harmonic is any of the integral multiplication of the fundamental frequency. The fundamental frequency f is called the first…socratic.org….
“Harmonics are always whole-number multiples of the fundamental frequency.“
How are harmonics related to fundamental frequency? | SocraticHarmonics are allways whole-number multiples of the fundamental frequency. Depending on the instrument, you can have all harmonics, or only the odd ones.…socratic.org…
“If the overtone is a simple integer multiple of the fundamental then it is harmonic, otherwise it is inharmonic.”
https://www2.mvcc.edu/users/faculty/jfiore/SoS/work/Overtones.pdf
Therefore, harmonic refers to specific nodes.
An overtone may - but does not have to as it refers generally to any frequency above the fundamental.
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Nothing fuzzy at all. It’s math.
I agree but it's also musical common sense. Two tones are either in harmony or they are not.
See also "inharmonic".
in·har·mon·ic
/ˌinhärˈmänik/
adjective MUSIC
- not harmonic
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I agree but it's also musical common sense. Two tones are either in harmony or they are not.
See also "inharmonic".
in·har·mon·ic
/ˌinhärˈmänik/
adjective MUSIC
- not harmonic
Yes. See the last quote where it uses that term.
An inharmonic would be an overtone. Just not a harmonic overtone.
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I guess we will agree to disagree.
Again, my issue is with this statement: "Overtones are *any* frequency above the fundamental"
Overtones are not "any" frequencies.
They sit sit at very clearly defined intervals from the fundamental.
Whether you want to identify them as inharmonic is up to you. -
I guess we will agree to disagree.
Again, my issue is with this statement: "Overtones are *any* frequency above the fundamental"
Overtones are not "any" frequencies.
They sit sit at very clearly defined intervals from the fundamental.
Whether you want to identify them as inharmonic is up to you.Fine by me.
How you ignore multiple sources saying "Overtone” is a term generally applied to any higher-frequency standing wave..." or equivalent statements, I don't know.
If I'm wrong I'm wrong, but offering no counter argument beyond "Your wrong, sorry" isn't persuasive.
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From manual: Vintage amps distort the lower harmonics in the guitar signal which gives them their bluesy sound. Modern tube amps use a different approach, in which the higher overtones of the guitar strings are the driving force for the distorted sound.
This is some great discussion. Now you see why I was confused about the above quote in the manual. This is from the section explaining Definition but doesn't explain what it does. and as we have witnessed in this thread, "overtones" and "harmonics" have different perceptions, but what did Kemper mean when the manual was written? Where does it say what it really does turning it up or down? Is it adjusting distortion in harmonics, overtones both or neither? I know If I wrote a manual I would just simply explain what definition does, You could likely do that in a paragraph or less.
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Overtones are not "any" frequencies.
They sit sit at very clearly defined intervals from the fundamental.
Whether you want to identify them as inharmonic is up to you.Question: How do you label frequencies in the broadband signal that is NOT at a defined interval from the fundamental?
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Which is something I said.
Overtones don’t have to be harmonics….its physics.
I quote your link:
"The term overtone is used to refer to any resonant frequency above the fundamental"
The fact that it states that an overtone can be any RESONANT frequency doesn't mean that it can be ANY frequency.
An overtone can be any of the upper partials above the fundamental and they all have a very specific spot in the frequency range, based on the fundamental. -
Question: How do you label frequencies in the broadband signal that is NOT at a defined interval from the fundamental?
This would imply the addition of a new frequency, independently from the initial fundamental frequency, not a resonant frequency generated by the initial fundamental.
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I'm curious to find out exactly what definition is really doing with the amp sound.
Can you just create a loop and LISTEN to it while adjusting the definition up and down?
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I quote your link:
"The term overtone is used to refer to any resonant frequency above the fundamental"
The fact that it states that an overtone can be any RESONANT frequency doesn't mean that it can be ANY frequency.
An overtone can be any of the upper partials above the fundamental and they all have a very specific spot in the frequency range, based on the fundamental.You are correct - perhaps I took that detail for granted or implicit and glossed over it. My mistake.
At the same time - resonant frequency does not necessarily refer to a harmonic. Those have specific nodes, whereas other resonant frequencies do not. Hence the term enharmonic.
