OS 10 beta is out! Let's get Liquid!

    Quote from ajbsmirnoff

    I've had a few evenings with my Kemper trying out the Liquid profiles, swapping tonestacks into existing profiles, and enjoying the experience. This is a really great update. More accurate profiles AND the ability to fundamentally modify existing profiles. Yippee.


    Having a gain knob in a profile (that starts out low gain) that can also 'be turned up to 11' is pretty darn cool too.


    Would a 'which tone stack should we add' voting thread be cool ? Like the 'Suggested Feature' thread ? I'd really like to vote for the midi preamp tonestacks Marshall JMP-1, ADA MP-1 and MB Triaxis.

    Yes particularly the JMP1.

    And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

    I have not profiled in years, but with the limited availability of Liquid Profiles, I figured it was time to dive back in.


    I did 3 profiles of my favorite amp, a Phaez Harem. It is a "D" style amp, so the profiles start out dark and thumpy. The "M" profile is a bit brighter. They respond well to the controls though. I used "Fan BM nrm" as a tone stack template. Settings were max for gain and middle of the pot sweep for everything else.




    Search RVA on RE. They were uploaded today, but also marked "LP" in the title to distinguish them from my other Phaez uploads.

    Edited 5 times, last by RVA213 ().

    Thanks 1

    The Restore Gain button did not return the gain value back to the original value in a test I just performed.


    On one profile, the gain was 11.4 as profiled. I changed all the values and saved it as a new (test) profile. When using the restore buttons, the tone stack returned to the original values but the gain went to 12 (max)

    I wonder if someone can answer this question: what does the gain knob do differently on a regular profile and a LP? I read this thread, watch both the Tone Junkie and HW/Michael Britt videos, and I think I understand the tone knobs.


    But unclear now what the gain knob is doing in a regular profile vs in a LP. It seems to me in a LP the gain is modeling what the gain in the profiled amp would do (ie, in HW’s vid he explains that for a fender dlx reverb you’d never get a above about 5.5 on the gain because that’s all the amp has). So what are we hearing in a standard profile deluxe when you crank the gain the 8?

    Quote from GCNC8068

    I wonder if someone can answer this question: what does the gain knob do differently on a regular profile and a LP? I read this thread, watch both the Tone Junkie and HW/Michael Britt videos, and I think I understand the tone knobs.


    But unclear now what the gain knob is doing in a regular profile vs in a LP. It seems to me in a LP the gain is modeling what the gain in the profiled amp would do (ie, in HW’s vid he explains that for a fender dlx reverb you’d never get a above about 5.5 on the gain because that’s all the amp has). So what are we hearing in a standard profile deluxe when you crank the gain the 8?

    From the manual - addendum 10:


    .....every PROFILE has undergone a deep analysis of the reference amp’s gain structure. When a PROFILE is assigned an Amp Model, this gathered information is combined with the Amp Model to form the target character of the authentic Gain control and EQ controls, available at all possible settings.


    Generic Gain

    While the regular Gain control is narrowed down to the authentic gain range of the selected Amp Model, the Generic Gain control in the menu still represents the wide Gain control of the PROFILER. When you move any of the two Gain controls, you will observe that both are linked – they will move simultaneously, but at different speeds and values. With the Generic Gain control, however, you can choose to exceed the maximum limit of the model Gain control. When “Kemper Generic” model is selected, then the regular Gain control and the Generic Gain show the same value.

    Thanks, but what tone model is used for the generic gain to send a fender dlx rev into a gain of, say, 8?


    In my understanding, the current (non-LP) tone controls are similar to changing the tone on the mixer channel the amp is mic’d into - you’re not changing the amp’s tone controls, you’re changing the tone of the amp’s mic’d (or recorded) sound.


    I can’t get my head around the gain in this scenario, however - and haven’t really thought about it before liquid profiles. Turning up the mixer’s “gain” on a recorded or mic’d amp doesn’t increase it overdrive or distortion. So what is the Kemper doing with generic gain above that which the amp could actually generate?

    If the profile was captured at a sweet spot of gain (where the gain is not set at full) and then you turn the Kemper gain above the perceived max of the profile gain, then the Kemper is guessing what the gain should sound like and it won't sound anything like the amp. Liquid profiles are profiled at max gain setting on the amp and this provides the profiler with an accurate full range of gain for the profile thus allowing you to adjust the gain to any amount within the actual range of the amp while theoretically maintaining authenticity of the amp.

    Quote from CelticGibson

    If the profile was captured at a sweet spot of gain (where the gain is not set at full) and then you turn the Kemper gain above the perceived max of the profile gain, then the Kemper is guessing what the gain should sound like and it won't sound anything like the amp. Liquid profiles are profiled at max gain setting on the amp and this provides the profiler with an accurate full range of gain for the profile thus allowing you to adjust the gain to any amount within the actual range of the amp while theoretically maintaining authenticity of the amp.

    Someone (who has the beta and is familiar with profiling) could quite easily do this test: create a regular profile on whatever they consider the sweet spot of gain - say it's 6.5 - then create a liquid profile (with amp on full gain) and use the Kemper controls to reduce the gain to 6.5 on the resulting liquid profile. Does it sound the same/as good?


    Same thing could be tested with respect to the tone knobs - i.e. regular profile with amp's b/m/t knobs at e.g. 6/4/7 (or whatever sounds good) vs. liquid profile (made with amp's b/t/m knobs at noon) and subsequently setting the the Kemper's modeled tonestack to to 6/4/7.


    While the general response to LQP seems positive, there do seem to be some mixed reports, especially from people attempting to create their own liquid profiles. The above test(s) would help to demonstrate whether (or not) the modeled tone stacks and gain controls really are accurately replicating what the amp would do. If anyone fancied making a video with these comparisons, I've a feeling it'd get a lot of views!

    Quote from GCNC8068

    But unclear now what the gain knob is doing in a regular profile vs in a LP. It seems to me in a LP the gain is modeling what the gain in the profiled amp would do (ie, in HW’s vid he explains that for a fender dlx reverb you’d never get a above about 5.5 on the gain because that’s all the amp has). So what are we hearing in a standard profile deluxe when you crank the gain the 8?

    My guess: this would be the same thing as we get today if we profile the reference amp at its max gain and then turn the gain on the kemper profile up from there.

    Quote from Michael_dk

    My guess: this would be the same thing as we get today if we profile the reference amp at its max gain and then turn the gain on the kemper profile up from there.

    Agreed on the gain. But I think the overall sound could still be a bit different because of the BrightCap option added when using a Liquid Amp Model. That wouldn't exist when using the Kemper Generic.

    Quote from alligatorlizard

    Someone (who has the beta and is familiar with profiling) could quite easily do this test: create a regular profile on whatever they consider the sweet spot of gain - say it's 6.5 - then create a liquid profile (with amp on full gain) and use the Kemper controls to reduce the gain to 6.5 on the resulting liquid profile. Does it sound the same/as good?


    Same thing could be tested with respect to the tone knobs - i.e. regular profile with amp's b/m/t knobs at e.g. 6/4/7 (or whatever sounds good) vs. liquid profile (made with amp's b/t/m knobs at noon) and subsequently setting the the Kemper's modeled tonestack to to 6/4/7.


    While the general response to LQP seems positive, there do seem to be some mixed reports, especially from people attempting to create their own liquid profiles. The above test(s) would help to demonstrate whether (or not) the modeled tone stacks and gain controls really are accurately replicating what the amp would do. If anyone fancied making a video with these comparisons, I've a feeling it'd get a lot of views!

    "Someone (who has the beta and is familiar with profiling) could quite easily do this test: create a regular profile on whatever they consider the sweet spot of gain - say it's 6.5 - then create a liquid profile (with amp on full gain) and use the Kemper controls to reduce the gain to 6.5 on the resulting liquid profile. Does it sound the same/as good?

    Guido Bungenstock     did just that here...

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    Quote from GCNC8068

    I wonder if someone can answer this question: what does the gain knob do differently on a regular profile and a LP? I read this thread, watch both the Tone Junkie and HW/Michael Britt videos, and I think I understand the tone knobs.

    The LP gain knob behaves as if there's a bright cap.


    Manual:

    The authenticity of the [LP] Amp Models is also true for the amp’s Gain control, which will mirror the exact range of the original gain potentiometer, as well as the tonal changes of the attached “Bright Cap”.

    Quote from GCNC8068

    In my understanding, the current (non-LP) tone controls are similar to changing the tone on the mixer channel the amp is mic’d into - you’re not changing the amp’s tone controls, you’re changing the tone of the amp’s mic’d (or recorded) sound.

    No. The non-LP tone controls still function as an amp's tone controls, just a generic one. LP tone controls are not generic, that's the difference.

    Quote from GCNC8068

    I can’t get my head around the gain in this scenario, however - and haven’t really thought about it before liquid profiles. Turning up the mixer’s “gain” on a recorded or mic’d amp doesn’t increase it overdrive or distortion. So what is the Kemper doing with generic gain above that which the amp could actually generate?

    Have you tried putting a volume boost pedal in front of an overdrive pedal? Depending on how much volume boost you give, the overdrive pedal gets more distorted. And if you give it a ton of volume boost, then the overdrive pedal gets distorted beyond just the distortion it can provide by itself, right? That's basically what's going on. When you turn up the gain into a nonlinear system, you get more distortion.

    As an aside, outside the digital domain, over-driving input stages of different analog (or digital) gear can get you the kind of distortion that you definitely DON'T want. Even the KPA can suffer from this if you over-drive the output (and get the output light to go solid red).


    ... but yeky83 is right about putting a volume boost in front of either a gain pedal, or the amp. It is no different than EITHER raising the volume on your guitar volume knob OR increasing the gain on the preamp (or pedal). I use this as well as a pure boost in the X slot after the amp to produce a good lead tone from a rhythm tone ( ... well, I also add an eq to boost the mid and mid highs for the lead as well).


    The point is, adding volume before the amp mostly just raises the gain.

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    Stumbled across this video on Youtube. Pretty thorough comparison of old and liquid profiling results. This suggests that one liquid profile of an amp will not be quite as good as taking several liquid profiles at different amp gain settings.

    Quote from djdyer

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    Stumbled across this video on Youtube. Pretty thorough comparison of old and liquid profiling results. This suggests that one liquid profile of an amp will not be quite as good as taking several liquid profiles at different amp gain settings.

    I think that is always in the eye of the beholder. Everyone should form their own opinion here

    Kemper Head - Kemper Remote - Palmer Box with Kemper Kone - TC Electronic BAM200 - Laney LFR 112

    Like 1

    Hi.
    One big question, from which I think a lot of people are interested in the answer:
    Will there be more LP amps within the future OS which we can choose in the Amp menu?
    (and if so, can you already say which amps?)

    Yes, there will be more.


    We are currently working on a number of amp types, that we consider to be relevant as well.

    There will be e.g. Bogner and Diezel, and an additional number of Fender Types.

    Ampeg too.


    Some of the new Fenders share the same gain and tonestack structure as the Vibrolux.

    That is the Pro, Bandmaster, Tremolux and Vibroverb.

    We have decided to still feature them as separate Amp Types, so while still making the same sonical impact, they will display the exact type of the profiled amp.

    Nice work Chris. Try do badcat stuff as there unique sounding. My fav knob of any amp is the badcat hotcat EDGE knob. I dont know what it does but it introduces valve goodness, a kind of buzz thats what we like about overdrive. This would be a amazing feature on any amp. The badcat pedal xtremetone is a hotcat preamp so you could steal it from there. Maybe look into that or have it as a all round feature on the kempers toneshaping. Thanks

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