Time to leave Pro Tools. What would be a good replacement?

    Well, Avid has finally angered me for the last time. I evidently have more money than sense. They raised the license price and doubled it and I didn't catch it last year. This year I spent more money in December and paid more attention to my credit card statement and caught the increase. I am not going to continue to pay the price they want every year so it is time to jump ship. This whole situation really ticks me off. I just spent a ton of money upgrading my hardware and drum plugin because the Mac OS upgrade I did made a bunch of things not work anymore.


    I don't really use third party plugins. I didn't want to go down that expensive rabbit hole so I learned how to do everything I wanted to do in Pro Tools using their plugins. The only third party thing I use is Steven Slate Drums, which I may now also have to replace if I can't move that over. I just upgraded that. I want the new solution to be as all inclusive as possible. It needs to cost me less than $199 per year to use it. I really don't want to have to pay every single year to have a DAW. Solutions that get me away from that will be preferred. I am running this on a Mac. I had thought about moving to Windows but that would cause me to have to buy a new large monitor as part of that move.


    I have used Reaper and Studio 1 in the past. I have until December of this year when my license expires to find a new solution. What else should I be looking at?


    I am wondering if moving to something like Reaper and buying a plugin bundle like Waves would get me what I need. I just need to verify that I don't nave to pay an annual fee on the plugins.

    I'm absolut happy with Logic Pro X,

    Incredible value for money, great sounding plugins and a clean and beautiful user interface.

    The only thing that could be better is the controller integration.
    Most fader controllers only work in Mackie Mode which sometimes seems to be a bit buggy.
    But I have never experienced any software bugs in logic itself in many years.
    I'm also using Studio One because it was included in our live Mixer Board (Presonus StudioLive III).
    I was tempted to switch to Studio One but I would have missed the great on-board plugins in Logic Pro.
    So I stayed and didn‘t regret it. The latest updates are incredible!

    Logic Pro X no yearly rate, just install a test-drive and check it out.
    https://www.apple.com/logic-pro/trial/


    https://www.musicradar.com/new…n-software-for-pc-and-mac

    Be the force with you

    Like 3

    I agree about Logic Pro X on a Mac. It's the only way to go ESPECIALLY if you go with the Education Bundle.

    You get Final Cut Pro, Logic Pro, MainStage, Motion, and Compressor.


    For $199. All of it.
    BTW, they don't ask for proof......anyone can download and buy at this discount.


    https://www.apple.com/us-edu/s…apps-bundle-for-education



    I bought the bundle for the sole reason of getting Final Cut Pro as I do video, but still use Logic Pro.


    If it wasn't for the fact that I've already invested in the flagship, Ableton Live Suite and Push 2, I would have stayed with Logic. It's a great program and lots of YouTube help and tutorials everywhere.

    The key to everything is patience.
    You get the chicken by hatching the egg, not by smashing it.
    -- Arnold H. Glasow


    If it doesn't produce results, don't do it.

    -- Me

    Like 2
    Quote from JEverly

    lightbox any good recommendations for this? You knocked it out of the park on the interface.

    Thanks for asking me and I'm glad you like the interface


    Regarding your DAW (and any kind of investment, really) I feel your pain. I very much dislike subscription models in general.

    So what is important to me:

    1. I want perpetual software licences with a clear, upfront information on upgrade/update paths even after years of not updating.

    2. Since I run 2 recording studios (one in Germany and one in Kathmandu/Nepal), I need to be able to easily share entire projects back and forth.

    3. With all sorts of recording/editing/mixing projects hitting the studios, I need a DAW that does it all, no matter what. So I've not been looking for the cheapest/easiest to learn solution but for the most versatile and capable workhorse. Complexity isn't an issue for me since I'm in the business of audio engineering since well over 30 years. Limitations (in software features and workflow) are a serious issue for me.

    4. Cross platform compatibility (Win/Mac) is yet another important thing for me. I need the DAW of my choice to be available on both major platforms.

    5. I might have to sometimes revisit old projects from years and years ago. This can be a tricky one, sometimes. But I get it done without too many troubles and difficulties.


    All this being said, my choices were dictated by the above. And to make a long story short, I use Steinberg Cubase Pro and Steinberg Nuendo, the latter mostly for work on movie score and for Dolby Atmos.


    Now does this mean I would recommend these products to you? No, because so far I don't know what you're actually doing in terms of recording/mixing work and what your mid to long term plans are. I don't even know why you have used Reaper and Studio One in the past and why they haven't become your weapon of choice.


    So I would kindly ask you to provide some info on what you're currently doing and what you're planning to do in the long run.

    Do you really need one of the "big" solutions? Would you rather go for a smaller or medium solution with the option to upgrade to the big, professional solution without starting from scratch? Do you need a (relatively) simple solution that doesn't kill your creative moments with its complexity or do you need something that has all the bells and whistles in case you need it?


    And last but not least (before we might get into more detailled discusion) ... your statement regarding third party plugins. I totally understand what you mean by "expensive rabbit hole". (Waves plugins would become a rabbit hole in no time, by the way)

    But keep in mind that even a lucky bastard sitting in front of an actual SSL console every single day can't get the sound he's looking for without "some" outboard gear. You basically just need to figure out what exactly you need and why. Stay away from plugin hoarding! And stay away from plugin subscriptions!
    I might be able to help you in this field as well but let's try to walk one step after the other, haha.


    Cheers

    Martin

    My ARC showed up this week. I connected it but haven't had a chance to play with it yet. I am looking forward to that, then this whole Pro Tools thing came up...


    I am pretty much an at home hobbyist at this point. I would love to take it farther but I have not found anyone that is looking to have someone work on their songs so I have not been able to take it beyond me creating my own content, which hasn't been a lot. I am trying to focus on moving things forward with this. I am willing to invest a little to have a good system that can grow with me and not have to be completely replaced ever couple of years. That is why that interface really works for me. I can't see myself outgrowing that unit and I know they will support it for a good while. The fact that I have not really been able to expand what I am doing with this system is what has me considering the options that are out there. I could possibly end up with Reaper or Studio 1 in the end. I just want to make sure I am putting my efforts into something that I can use for a decent amount of time and not outgrow it. I have been doing live mixing for a long time. I am very familiar with the use of compressors, verbs, delays and such from mixing with a digital mixer. Going between a DAW and my digital mixer has been a very easy transition for me.


    I have posted this thread on a few forums and have been doing some research on the DAW software that people have been suggesting looking to see what may fit my needs the best. I have been getting a lot of people recommending Logic. On the surface it looks to be a good solution for what I need. I can se the possibility of me wanting to move to a Windows machine in the future so I would like something that can go cross platform, which was another plus for me with Pro Tools. I don't know that I "need" one of the big solutions today but if I were ever able to start doing work on other people's songs, I would want something with the power to handle it and deliver a good product. I really enjoy mixing and mastering and would like to do more of it.


    Let me know what else I can provide that may help.

    Another thing I forgot to mention is that I want the DAW to be able to use automation like Pro Tools. That is a powerful feature that I think is a must have. I am not sure if these other DAWs have that.

    Reaper! Can do everything and has cheapest license. They only downfall is the user interface may not be as pretty as others but you can download different skins for it. I haven't. I just want the functionality. Plus, Kenny Gioia has a youtube channel with hundreds of tutorials on using Reaper called Reaper Mania.

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

    Like 1
    Quote from JEverly

    Another thing I forgot to mention is that I want the DAW to be able to use automation like Pro Tools. That is a powerful feature that I think is a must have. I am not sure if these other DAWs have that.

    Every DAW from the big names have automation,
    More intresting is how is the workflow
    -- multi take recording
    -- punch in/out
    -- step sequencing

    -- step sequencing / live looping
    -- pitch correction


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    Be the force with you

    Edited 2 times, last by Yoda Guitar ().

    Like 1

    I see Cubase has a crossgrade option. Since I am currently a Pro Tools customer I can get a pretty big discount to move over to them. That officially puts them on the table as an option.


    This is all going to be a balance. I am looking for the most bang for the buck that I can grow with that I won't outgrow. I also do not want to get into this subscription thing anymore. I don't mind paying once in a while to upgrade if necessary. I was already doing that. I have 5 programs in my short list, that is growing right now. The research is starting. I took a look at Logic X and Cubase Pro 11 so far. Both look good. Reaper is definitely on the table too. I didn't realize they had a video editing software as well. That is definitely a bonus. I have thought about doing that type of thing as well.

    Quote from JEverly

    I see Cubase has a crossgrade option. Since I am currently a Pro Tools customer I can get a pretty big discount to move over to them. That officially puts them on the table as an option.

    Yes, i don't know how many you pay for "your" crossgrade Sweetwater offers Crossgrade to Cubase Pro 11 for $332.
    But Logic Pro costs ony $200 and I never paid again for any update since 2013.

    Be the force with you

    Like 2
    Quote from Yoda Guitar

    Yes, i don't know how many you pay for "your" crossgrade Sweetwater offers Crossgrade to Cubase Pro 11 for $332.
    But Logic Pro costs ony $200 and I never paid again for any update since 2013.

    That is slightly cheaper than what I found on their web site. It may pay to get it through them if I buy it. Even with the tax it is slightly cheaper. I don't know if they charge for upgrades. The thing I like about it is if I decide to move to a Windows machine, I can use the same DAW on that platform. I like not being locked into Apple. Their machined are really expensive. If I were setting all of this up fresh today, I would run it on a Windows machine. They have really caught up to the Apple hardware specs and are abound half of the price.


    Edit: The reason it is less is that you have to buy the USB key separately.

    Quote from Yoda Guitar

    ... Crossgrade to Cubase Pro 11 for $332.
    But Logic Pro costs ony $200 ...

    To some degree I totally understand that cost of ownership is a factor for most.

    And I know there's cheaper options and more expensive ones.

    But let me put it into perspective from a strictly professional point of view:

    Learning and mastering a huge box of tools takes quite some time. Build your workflow, get used to differences to your prior tools, adapt, create templates, presets etc.

    You can't simply add this time to your clients' bill. It's not their fault that you're not yet fast and proficient with your new tool.

    You really don't want this "waste of time" to repeat every other year. You want to be confident that you'll use this tool and the skills you've acquired in this tool for 10 years plus. You want your tool to be able to grow with your tasks and you want the tool to have enough "hidden" power so you can grow as well.

    No matter if you buy 100 Dollar/Euro software or 1000 Dollar/Euro software, the 100 (unpaid) hours you'll spend to get up to speed cost you a lot more (again, as a professional).

    Quote from JEverly

    That is slightly cheaper than what I found on their web site. It may pay to get it through them if I buy it. Even with the tax it is slightly cheaper. I don't know if they charge for upgrades. The thing I like about it is if I decide to move to a Windows machine, I can use the same DAW on that platform. I like not being locked into Apple. Their machined are really expensive. If I were setting all of this up fresh today, I would run it on a Windows machine. They have really caught up to the Apple hardware specs and are abound half of the price.


    Edit: The reason it is less is that you have to buy the USB key separately.

    Steinberg team have stated the dongle will soon be history.

    Think for yourself, or others will think for you wihout thinking of you

    Henry David Thoreau

    Like 1

    $132 isn't enough of a difference in price for that to be a consideration for me at this point. I have thrown a lot of money at Avid and I am okay with that difference in price. My thoughts are similar to what lightbox is saying. I plan on investing the time to learn the new DAW and want that time to bring me some sort of value for a period of time. I am not doing work for any customers but I would love to do that. I like the idea of a DAW that has some hidden features that I can grow into. I am not afraid of doing some digging and playing. I did that with Pro Tools.

    I'll throw in for Studio One. It's an incredibly underrated DAW, and the newest one has some spectacular, useful features built in. My only rub with PreSonus is how they'll update whatever version of it and you get the updates for free but then they'll come up with something that makes it a "new" version and ya' gotta pay for that. I'm still on Studio One 3 Pro at my home studio (vs 5 at work) and there's really nothing I can do at work that I can't do at home, just might have to do it differently.

    Just a guy who plays a little bit of guitar.

    Like 1
    Quote from Yoda Guitar

    Yes, i don't know how many you pay for "your" crossgrade Sweetwater offers Crossgrade to Cubase Pro 11 for $332.
    But Logic Pro costs ony $200 and I never paid again for any update since 2013.

    This. If you’re on Mac Logic Pro is a no brainer.