No one ever seems to realize that two different products that serve the same or similar purpose can, will and do exist. That's like saying Toyota's new (whatever) is a Honda (whatever) killer.
Fender has been committed to digital amps for over 20 years. The Cyber Twin was released in 2001. Line6 went from laughingstock and second-rate to a zero-apologies line of products. I see no reason Fender can't do something similar. It sure looks like they've been working towards it for some time now.
The Cyber Twin was released in 2001
I bought one in 2001 and always have it (like it even i don't play it often)
I had a mustang V2 20W too, it was fun to play at home.
IMO, they really do a mistake with this price level...
I agree Line 6 had done a bet with Helix cause they change their range price from amateur to professionnal (and they succeeded). But there were only Fractal and Kemper upper range price and Helix was cheaper. After, L6, a lot of modelers followed the same way ; Boss GT-1000, headrush floor, MOOER GE-300, ZOOM G11 . And QUAD CORTEX...
We have a lot of choice, all those devices communities have grown and exchanged a lot of knowledges/presets during years.
Fender arrives with a high level price but i don't remember a Fender multi-effects pedal board, it's a Helix/Quad Cortex mixed like....They arrive after the battle....
I'm not a marketing strategist but, imo, they should come like Helix did (at 1000€ in this case), just to make poeple hesitate and try another (imo good) possible solution.....
I hope i'm wrong but they've launched other really good products that they don't sell....I don't think they sell a lot of Tone master combo even it can be a really really good solution. But tube snobs don't look at it and others jump to modelers....
If anything, that would be the coolest revenge for continuously copying Fender amps: to just copy all the modellers at once in one single unit. "Revenge" it would be only if it is any good, soundwise, of course. But to be honest, at the moment it still looks like fake news to me.
If anything, that would be the coolest revenge for continuously copying Fender amps: to just copy all the modellers at once in one single unit. But to be honest, at the moment it still looks like fake news.
I think it's real. Just too many different sources discussing it. I would think Fender would have been quick to deny its existence....but they haven't.
Also - there are plenty of images - including the bottom with serial number and boilerplate declarations/logos. If it's fake, someone went above and beyond to dupe everyone. Mad props if its fake.
Seems as if someone violated the crap out of their NDA, though.
I think it's real. Just too many different sources discussing it. I would think Fender would have been quick to deny its existence....but they haven't.
Also - there are plenty of images - including the bottom with serial number and boilerplate declarations/logos. If it's fake, someone went above and beyond to dupe everyone. Mad props if its fake.
Seems as if someone violated the crap out of their NDA, though.
Either way, I am curious. Especially if Fender really goes down the modelling road, which would not really make sense to me. We already have fractal and Line6, I doubt Fender can do it better. So if it's true, there should be something on the capturing side of things (like QC?).
Either way, I am curious. Especially if Fender really goes down the modelling road, which would not really make sense to me. We already have fractal and Line6, I doubt Fender can do it better. So if it's true, there should be something on the capturing side of things (like QC?).
Fender has been doing modeling for 20 plus years. Longer than Fractal, longer than Kemper. Of the major names, Line6 is the only one in the game longer, and they were low-rent for quite a while. People initially laughed at the release of the Helix...but stopped laughing just as quickly.
If you look a the progression, they've been building up or a long while. The entire industry is headed this way. The 10 ton Gorilla (Fender Musical Instruments) staying out of it? Nah.
Fender has been doing modeling for 20 plus years. Longer than Fractal, longer than Kemper. Of the major names, Line6 is the only one in the game longer, and they were low-rent for quite a while. People initially laughed at the release of the Helix...but stopped laughing just as quickly.
If you look a the progression, they've been building up or a long while. The entire industry is headed this way. The 10 ton Gorilla (Fender Musical Instruments) staying out of it? Nah.
True but the main problem is the brand "image".
Fender is known for combos, Twins, Tweed, deluxe (and strat, tele ;))
Marshall idem.
They've each launched modeling combos but never a dedicated modeling unit... On the other hand, they could sell the same units for 60/70 years, cause poeple wanted that and nothing else.... Who reminds Gibson Lespaul modern 2017 ? It was a flop...It lasts one year...the shape was not liked imo....
Line 6, Fractal, Kemper have started with a modeling (or profililng ) unit that has to be plugged in....
Line 6 has done devices that they didn't sell too.... Powercab for example, it's a good unit but in front of Helix sales, i find the number of owners not important. Line 6 don't put it forward, you don't know if it's discontinued....There are no updates of very few.... I've owned a L6 firehawk before my helix LT ; it was stillborn....
One of the first modeler with an app to set it up.... Laughed at cause it was too geeky.... A lot of competitors do the same nowdays and it's a good thing.
No need to say that it was hard to sell it only one year after...
It's not too late but it takes time to change all that...
Fender is huge and could efficiently and successfully R&D their way through anything they want to focus on. With all the current modelers, the pulse has long been taken among the community so I wouldn't doubt this release could be something truly amazing that checks all the boxes.
However, the industry standard has already been established so I think it's too little too late for Fender (let alone the bad reputation they have at supporting their digital products). I think it would take something truly revolutionary for a new machine to take the top spots (ie. more than just a touch screen, bluetooth connection, cosmetic stuff, etc).
Display MoreTrue but the main problem is the brand "image".
Fender is known for combos, Twins, Tweed, deluxe (and strat, tele ;))
Marshall idem.
They've each launched modeling combos but never a dedicated modeling unit... On the other hand, they could sell the same units for 60/70 years, cause poeple wanted that and nothing else.... Who reminds Gibson Lespaul modern 2017 ? It was a flop...It lasts one year...the shape was not liked imo....
Line 6, Fractal, Kemper have started with a modeling (or profililng ) unit that has to be plugged in....
Line 6 has done devices that they didn't sell too.... Powercab for example, it's a good unit but in front of Helix sales, i find the number of owners not important. Line 6 don't put it forward, you don't know if it's discontinued....There are no updates of very few.... I've owned a L6 firehawk before my helix LT ; it was stillborn....
One of the first modeler with an app to set it up.... Laughed at cause it was too geeky.... A lot of competitors do the same nowdays and it's a good thing.
No need to say that it was hard to sell it only one year after...
It's not too late but it takes time to change all that...
I totally get where you're coming from. Fender's image doesn't conjure modeling. They have work to do - and this unit needs to be competitive. If it isn't, it'll go away.
They did have a floor unit, the Mustang Floor. It was never updated with the V2, but they had one. I'd have bought a V2 version in an instant at the time.
But unlike Gibson in 2017 when they were flopping around and killing the company, Fender is in a very different place and quite healthy as an organization. The Tone Master amps were a huge risk that seems to have paid off enough to do this. Same for the Acoustasonic line. Saw a guy at a brewery a week ago using one and it sounded great.
Their problem isn't brand recognition. Everyone knows about Fender. What they have to overcome is the (very real) pigeonhole people may find them in. They, of all poeple, know the hurdle in front of them. But.....Fender's distribution network makes even Line6 look small. Line6 is in most places.....Fender is *everywhere*.
Gonna be fun to watch regardless.
Display MoreI totally get where you're coming from. Fender's image doesn't conjure modeling. They have work to do - and this unit needs to be competitive. If it isn't, it'll go away.
They did have a floor unit, the Mustang Floor. It was never updated with the V2, but they had one. I'd have bought a V2 version in an instant at the time.
But unlike Gibson in 2017 when they were flopping around and killing the company, Fender is in a very different place and quite healthy as an organization. The Tone Master amps were a huge risk that seems to have paid off enough to do this. Same for the Acoustasonic line. Saw a guy at a brewery a week ago using one and it sounded great.
Their problem isn't brand recognition. Everyone knows about Fender. What they have to overcome is the (very real) pigeonhole people may find them in. They, of all poeple, know the hurdle in front of them. But.....Fender's distribution network makes even Line6 look small. Line6 is in most places.....Fender is *everywhere*.
Gonna be fun to watch regardless.
Exactly !
I don't know if this device will work or not.... On one side, i would like Fender to be recognized for that new product but i would like modelers' prices to go down too. I bought my Helix LT 750€ in 2017, it's 1050€ now
I've seen with my Cybertwin that if it's not a traditionnal combo, it's denigrated.... I have not sold it cause it's really cheap vs the day i bought it
I've read a lot of bad opinions about it on the web while i like the sound it produces... IMO, very good product but just discredited...
Tone master familly : the same. I think if i would like to buy a Twin, i would buy a Tone master.
All i wanted to say, even for Gibson, is that when they purpose new alternatives they are not followed....Their products are shunned....
NO, buy a heavy second hand Fender Twin instead of the electronic one, sound is night and day, even if you can't ply it at home 
One advantage nowdays is that poeple are less linked to one brand and owns many devices, we gonna see a lot of reviews that will say this new stuff is very good, etc....
Exactly !
I don't know if this device will work or not.... On one side, i would like Fender to be recognized for that new product but i would like modelers' prices to go down too. I bought my Helix LT 750€ in 2017, it's 1050€ now
Covid and the world insistent on eating itself had a lot to do with that. Everything is more expensive.
I want this to be a good unit. If the Quad Cortex didn't have such crappy effects and the amp controls weren't so..... basic...and Neural DSP seems determined to not meet expectations......
I got to admit...this skeuomorphic UI, working in conjunction with the footswitch/encoders, is very cool. Can't wait to hear detailed specs, features/benefits, as well as user reviews:
I'll start with the obvious and usual comment, that always comes up: "this unit is perfectly made for dirty bars, flying bottles and drunkards who spill loads of beer all over it"... . Now that this is out of the way, here is the obvious: it is very beautiful, indeed. But the very first thing I already have mixed emotions with, is that the routing is limited, like in the Headrush or the Kemper and not fully open to easy constant assignment for (admittedly more rare) complex patches. Good first sounds, I would say, I am curious to listen to more. It seems to be "only" a modeller, which surprises me.
I was quite excited, but... unfortunately none of the demos available yet sounded really convincing to me. "Pretty o.k." at best. Reminds me most likely to some cheaper Boss modelling stuff.
The audio on both of those videos is....suspect to me. Especially the Cosmo music one.....that seems to vary from mono to stereo to clear to muffled......
I'd really like to get some real time with one of these.
I've seen all the videos, so far. The more I listen to it the more it sounds... "like a modeller" . This clearly isn't necessarily bad but I also clearly prefer what I have. I still predict that Fender will be quite successful with this because many tend to listen with their eyes and this clearly has hands down the best form factor, UI, IO etc., for me, so far. What a shame it has the wrong logo on it and so it will never be capable of playing liquid profiles - what a dream that would be.
This unit will be sold cause ;
- No-one is linked to a brand nowdays and you can own 5-6 different brand multi-FXs at the same time
- The sound must be Excellent when i read all good opinions about Tone master serie (and i don't judge with vids )
- The screen and FXs/Amps representation is just Wahou
- Many don't care about buying a 2000€ unit just to try....
- It's a good thing they lanched dedicated FRFR Tone master at the same time
It won't cause :
- It's too expensive
- It's a Helix-Quad Cortex-Headrush like, every one wants the original
- Users are happy with the unit they have, know it perfectly, obtain the sounds they want and belong to a huge community
- Poeple are afraid of wasting money in a Fender modeling unit (as for the cybertwin ). But i assume Fender has understood how competitors have done to succeed ; reliability, exchange rigs, ergonomics, long life products with (free) updates (even if i don't know if it's in Fender's policy to do regular updates... i think rather they launch a successfull product they make softly evolve)....
I'm impatient to discover the Marshall and Vox One
. And QUAD CORTEX...
) unit that has to be plugged in....
. Now that this is out of the way, here is the obvious: it is very beautiful, indeed. But the very first thing I already have mixed emotions with, is that the routing is limited, like in the Headrush or the Kemper and not fully open to easy constant assignment for (admittedly more rare) complex patches. Good first sounds, I would say, I am curious to listen to more. It seems to be "only" a modeller, which surprises me.
