I would guess the Orange Overdrive OD120
Got to admit, I did not realise there was an OD120 as distinct from an OR120 - yes, must be that. One of the more obscure Orange amps tho - and 2 version of it? Hopefully they'll do the Rockerverb too - and a Tiny Terror surely couldn't be that hard
I'd rather have someone profile an amp in its sweet-spot(s) so I don't have to chase each one down...and then tweak. What I despise are profile groups where they profile every last gain location, regardless of whether or not they sound good.
Guidorist doesn't do a huge number of profiles - but each alteration is usable.
The advantage to the generic EQ is that it behaves the same across all profiles.
Yes, I have wondered this too, after seeing that's it's recommended to profile an amp on full gain for LQP.
I've never really liked the sound of any amp with gain at 10 - if I want a really cranked sound, I find it usually sounds better backed off a bit from max gain, e.g. to 8 or 9. So of course with LQP you can then reduce the gain to e.g. 8 with the Kemper - but does this really sound better than just profiling the amp at 8 (or whatever it's high-gain sweet spot is) in the first place?
Usually with profiles, I'm able to find the gain range I'm after in any given pack, it's more the tone stack I'm interested in (as I rarely find profiles where the amp's been EQ'd to my liking!) - so it'd be a shame if all profiles became the sound of the amp set to 10, then artificially backed off with the Kemper's LQP modelling. Unless of course that works REALLY well. Still waiting for the official release to test it myself.
You guys understand why digital amp makers don't list the actual trademark name of the amp they're trying to mimic, right?
No, I can't imagine....
It's pretty easy to figure out the amp manufacturer, and most of the specific models even - but tell me, which Orange amps do "orange overdose 1" and "orange overdose 2" refer to?
The list is in post #93.
Did see that, but I was expecting 40, hence my wording "complete list" - however I since read that not all have been released yet, so I guess that's our lot for now!
Still would like to see some explanation of the naming though - as a fan of Orange amps, I'd particularly like to know what the Orange Overdose's are - and Orange's have quite different amp controls on each amp, so a Rockerverb one is not necessarily going to work for an OR120 etc.
all available models are visible on the hardware with 10.0 installed and/or in the matching Rig Manager version
For those of us that are waiting for the beta version to be tested, it would be nice to see a full list to see what's in store.
Also, is there an explanation anywhere of exactly which amps they're based on - some are obvious - but e.g. which amps are Orange Overdose 1 & 2?
Nope...
Jubilees tone stack is pretty different and I'd really like it will be included next.
Post #56 is about it a bit in details
https://www.marshallforum.com/…jubilee-2555.78006/page-3
AFD.. I don't really want to start a discussion cause anytime people get angry... But maybe yes, similar in tone controls, to a JCM800 but Brighterwith More Gain.. so No. I m not sure we have a faithfull behave of it yet.
Interesting, thanks for clarifying. Hope they steadily release more tone stacks now the basic tech seems in place. Am waiting for the beta-tested version, but can't wait to try it out!
Don‘t underestimate the effect different (3-4mm in my case) pics can have on your sound. When I switched from 0.73 Tortex to 3mm acrylic pics, my sound changed tremendously. Would never have expected that.
3mm! That's a real man's plectrum
I've been using the black 1mm Jim Dunlop picks (the ones made out of slightly flexible material) for so long, not sure what I'd do if they ever stopped making them - definitely part of how I play, and I guess it does affect the attack of the notes etc.
I remember in the early 90's there was a trend for using various power tools to play guitar with - for when you want a really different tone!
Gear = Fractal, Line6, QC
Dude .
I guess you missed when I mentioned several times that I was planning to get an FM3... Duuude
Ah well, I suggest we move on, Liquid Profiling beckons...
Now the manual saysFor [Liquid ] PROFILING, it is preferable to set the gain control of your reference amp to the maximum position
Now I really should try out the very first Mattfig rigs, because on paper they seem perfect for adding LP / Tonestacks?!
I've literally just been digging out some old Mattfig profiles (SLX900), which I'd previously rejected, but was searching for some raw Marshall tones so figured I'd try the DI's in the pack with some Celestion cabs - and they ended up sounding glorious! Glad I revisited them armed with IR's
They actually didn't need much EQ-ing once I'd swapped cabs and adjusted definition, but sounds like they would be good candidates for experimenting with Liquid tonestacks - do you happen to know if these are some of the ones profiled at noon?
Dude🙂, everything seems all right then. Thanks for sharing but who said you should change pickups?
"...maybe you should just consider different gear?"
We've already established I intend to try a different amplification unit (FM3, the reason this conversation started), so what's left other than guitar/pickups? You were talking about plectrums?
I don't seem to understand, maybe it's me. Could you please more specific and just name your pickups and your style and what the exact issues are, that you are experiencing? Maybe orhers have the same gear. You could even open a new thread and ask for help, if there is something you are trying to solve. Also, I did not say "follow", I said "in my experience", that's different.
I can say this: traditional pickups and styles work great with the Kemper, for me and everybody I talked to or played with and who uses Kemper. It is not hard to find good sounding profiles of amps I already own and play. It gets even easier when I focus on my skills, musicality and mood, as I already said. I am no modern metal player, so this part is up to those guys. But at the end, there is no need for pain and torture - nobody is forced to use whatever gear if it is not somehow immediately right. Go with what works best for you, your guitars, style, work flow, pickups, feel, etc. If you have made sure, as I said, that your skills, technique, musicality and your mere ability to simply enjoy music (!... big problem with many so called guitarists nowadays!) is not the real issue, then maybe you should just consider different gear?
Ah, I was wondering how long till someone said "well get different pickups then!" You know, I have considered this - a standard Les Paul (or possibly SG) would be my choice - I've seen a lot of videos where some of the Kemper profiles I've rejected do sound great on these instruments. Thing is tho, I like my current pickups. I have a few gtrs, but my main recording one is a Patrick Eggle - kind of a British PRS - with DiMarzio MoJoe and PAFJoe pickups - the, MoJoe (bridge) in particular is a bit "thicker" than most stock humbuckers, which is probably where some of my problems with profile-compatibility lie, BUT I have never have a problem dialing in the right settings for them on real amps or modelers - and when the settings are right, they're incredibly articulate/dynamic and "vocal" almost (they are after all Satch signature pickups!). They also work great for both lead and rhythm playing, and for both aggressive and more lyrical styles. So, while I might still get a Les Paul or an SG at some point just to add to the gtr arsenal, I want amplification-gear that works with my Patrick Eggle too!
But here's what it is that I think you're not understanding - I'm not experiencing any "issues" here as such - I know the Kemper inside out in terms of tweaking, I know what a good guitar sound is and what it isn't, and I'm good as far as "skills, technique, musicality and the mere ability to enjoy music" go, thank you very much And I think I did already mention that I have found a lot of fantastic profiles that do work perfectly with these pickups. It's just that I've had to sift thru rather an inordinately large amount of profiles to find them... I write and record music for a living, so often need a specific tone for a track, and time is often a consideration. My point was simply that (in the context of this discussion of KPA vs Fractal) I find it easier and quicker to dial in a tone on a modeler than hunt thru large amounts of tones that other people have dialing for their gear - and this is the reason why I, like the OP, am considering a Fractal as an additional tool.
I think what irked me about your posts here was you seem to imply that if someone finds they have to go thru a lot of profiles just to find a few that work with their pickups, then they must be doing something wrong. In contrast, I'm being rather generous with my hypothesis for why people's experience varies in this regard. e.g. I could just say "well, some people have no taste" - but I'm open to the fact that different pickups, and styles, do play a large factor.
Again, to clarify, it's not that I think the majority of profiles are "bad" - in fact almost all I've tried I would deem to be "good" profiles. But put it this way - if you go into a recording studio, and plug into an amp, do you just leave the dials as they are, or adjust them to suit your pickups and the sound you want? I can assure, any producer or engineer would insist on the latter! You'd want to get the best sound out of the amp first, before any additional EQ-ing etc. What I do find with the majority of profiles is they sound like amps where I'd never leave the dials where they were if I plugged into it sounding that way, and that there's only so much you can do with the pre or post EQ to fix that. However, I hear Liquid Profiling has just dropped (or at least the beta), so fingers crossed, all these points may be moot soon!!
And btw, Kemper themselves are freely admitting these limitations I'm mentioning in their press-releases for Liquid Profiling.
Anyway, keep enjoying the Kemper, as shall I, but - unless LP really does change things radically in terms of more realistic tone stacks - then I shall also soon be enjoying an FM3 as well
Display MoreI agree and don't agree.
Both always rely on the starting tone. If the profile is "crap" you can't then make it good - agree.
But you also assume that with a modeller the starting sound is good. It isn't always....authentic is also not awalys better, this is why liquid profiles have little interest for me.
So I go back to my point, the time is "only" to audition sounds and I agree that is a pain. Once I have a good base sound, very little tweaking is required. You have the same issue with the modeller which is the base sound needs to be good but you can't change the base sound of the amp and delve into IR's etc.
It goes back to can you find a sound you like instantly, for some they can. If you can't then I don't think the KPA is anymore frustrating that any other - heard so many times that people have to deep dive on a fractal to get their sound..
I do agree with that actually, and that's the reason I abandoned modelers entirely and went all Kemper for the last few years - modelers were just not feeling or sounding realistic to me, not fun or inspiring to play. I guess what I'm saying is that I've never had a problem dialing in a virtual amp to get a balanced tone for my pickups (and btw, by balanced, I don't mean flat, but you know, just the right amount of weight and bite and body, not too harsh or too muddy) - but of course, if the amp model isn't good in itself, it's still not going to be an inspiring sound! With the Kemper, profiles almost always sound/feel like a real amp, but often an amp where the tone controls are not set in the way I'd like it. If it's not too far off, you can definitely EQ it into shape, but, for example, if it's not got enough "bite", you can't really add that in in a way that sounds the same as actually cranking the treble knob on a real amp (tho I hear Liquid profiling has just dropped, so maybe now...?) Anyway, point being, if I'm going to try another modeler, might as well try the best e.g. Fractal - my hope is that the amp models there ARE good enough, so that simply setting the tone/gain controls to taste will get me both a nicely balanced tone and a realistic amp sound/feel - but who knows, maybe I'll be disappointed, or find it does take a lot more under-the-hood tweaking. Worth a shot tho I figure, or I'll always be wondering! I guess I'll have to report back once I've tried an FM3
Even if I don't like a pack I bought, I don't regret it. It just means that I supported a person that might deliver my next pack that I do like. I have saved SO much money just using the Kemper in the first place.
Good for you, I guess... You're happy to part with money for something that you'd never have bought if you'd have tried it first. Most people aren't.
Sure, as someone else pointed out, it's still a lot cheaper than the actual gear (and necessary recording equipment).
But still, these are businesses, not charities.
Someone, Kemper or 3rd party, should set up an official market-place where you can actually try profiles before buying (e.g. for a limited time, or with some intermittent noise like a lot of VST demos) - this would put a stop to the amount of money these companies take from unsatisfied customers, and make the whole Kemper user experience FAR better.
And yes, no-one's forcing anyone to buy profiles - but unless you're very lucky with Rig Exchange, it is the only way to expand the Kemper sound library.
Yep, this!
(says the person who owns literally everything from TJ, MB, BM and many more but only uses very few profiles, regularly. What madness).
Also: In my experience, if you are not able to "find" good profiles you will also fall into an endless tweaking rabbit hole with a modeller. It really isn't that difficult to find good profiles, imho. Go with the amps you like and start from there. There are so unbelievably many good profiles, even the factory profiles are better than any modeller, imo. Guitarists should better be able to play guitar, though, there are no profiles for bad playing.
If someone is not able to find many good profiles because the majority of them don't seem to suit their pickups, but they are able to dial in good tones for said pickups on real amps and modelers, then why does it follow that they'd fall into an endless tweaking rabbit hole with a modeler?
Surely quite the opposite - instead of searching thru countless profiles looking for ones where the amp was profiled with suitable settings, they'd just quickly set the tone controls on the amp model to their preference and hey presto. Of course they'd probably also want to tweak further "under the hood" if it's a sound they're going to use often - but the same goes for the Kemper. It's just that, on a modeler, getting to that stage of a basic nicely balanced amp tone on which to build is a matter of turning a few virtual dials, not hours of auditioning sounds other people have dialed in for their instruments to see if any work with your instrument.
The Kemper's profiling tech is great, no question it sounds and feels real - but it (currently) has limitations as to how far you can successfully modify each tone beyond what was captured. Hence why people look to modelers either as an addition or an alternative.
Sounds like you've had no problem finding profiles that work for you - but if you browse enough Kemper threads here and elsewhere you'll notice people's experiences vary wildly in this respect. Some people do seem to like just about everything they try, but without hearing the tones they're using though their specific guitar/pickups, it's hard to say whether it's just that these people aren't as picky, or whether the gtrs/pickups they're using are maybe more compatible with a wider range of profiles (e.g. I have noticed it seems easier to find good sounds for my single coil strat - however I hardly ever use this, prefer humbuckers!)
If someone's not easily finding many profiles that work for their specific guitar/pickups or style, I don't think it's necessarily - as you seem to imply - that they're doing something wrong. Could be that if you heard what they're hearing - e.g. some of the same profiles you like, but thru their gear - you might agree!
Display MoreI have rarely used a stock paid or free profile stock in 11 years.
Dive in deeper and tune the profile to your taste, guitar and ears, there is heaps to explore.
It will be no different to the Axe.
Cab Lo and hi shift, character.
Definition (a forum favourite)
Amp compression
Clarity
EQ (obvious)
Tube bias, pick, tube shape.
If you haven’t explored these and more you are likely to be disappointed.
Know your tools.
In case any of this is aimed at my reply above, you wouldn't believe how deeply I've dived into all the parameters on the Kemper... And what I've concluded (as have many others btw) is that essentially there's only so much you can do if the profile is not already pretty much in the ballpark tonally - yes, you can EQ, pre and post amp, till it sounds balanced, but if it was way off in the first place, it's not going to sound much like a real amp anymore once you've applied more than a certain amount of EQ. What the Kemper's various parameters are good for is refining an already good-sounding profile into a really perfect one. On the profiles I use a lot, I'll adjust (if necessary) every single parameter available (starting with Definition) until I find the sweet spots, I use studio EQ before the amp stack to optimise the signal going in (including level), broad stokes with the amp stack EQ, then much more detailed final EQ (and filters) in the DAW.
And all this is very different to a modeler - fundamentally, in a modeller, you can set the amps tone controls in a way that simulates how a real amp would react (depending on how good the modeler is of course), so a basic amp tone is very easy to dial up as long as you've got half-decent ears. With Kemper profiles, you're always working with a tone someone else has dialed in to suit their gtr/pickups/tastes. If you're lucky, you'll find some where their settings are very close to what you'd ideally dial in on the same amp. Then, the Kemper can sound glorious, and all the parameters you mention and more can help refine it further to you needs, and subtle EQ works very well for idealising the tone. But finding these golden profiles is the tricky bit, and they'll be different ones for different people, so recommendations and audio demos only go so far.
Liquid profiling might improve things. An online (or part of rig manager) marketplace where you can actually try the profiles before buying would at least cut down the cost if not the time spent searching. Also, if profiling companies included more tonal variations (e.g. per gain range captured), that would make profile-buying a lot less risky.
Of course all this pertains to using the Kemper with 3rd party profiles (which I believe the majority of users do) - I imagine if you make your own profiles you would have none of these issues!
Awesome ,cheers! yeah me too with the fed up of dissapointing profile pack purchases.
Just out of interest, what profiles would you recommend?
Well first of all, I pretty much gave up on studio profiles a while back - too many variables all have to be right - however when I started trying DI (or merged) profiles with IR's (mainly celestion) I finally started getting the sounds I was after. Essentially, it's easier to find a DI profile where the amp settings are at least in the ballpark of what you want, than a studio one where the cab/speaker/mic/mic-placement choice all has to be right too. So the DI (and/or merged) profiles I've got the best tones from would be Choptones and Guidorist, TMS not bad either. All very hit and miss though - Choptones has a wide selection of DI only packs, but they're all a bit pricey, and I kind of resent the amount I've had to spend just to get a few good tones - nonetheless, their Rockerverb, Fender Princeton, and Brit Plexy (1959) are some of my favs. Guidorist, also hit and miss, but his HiWatt pack contains some of my all-time favourite tones, and a few other of his packs have worked well too - at least these profiles are so cheap, I can't complain too much about the misses!
It does all depend on gtr/pickups tho, hence different ones might work for you - and I would say that many of the ones that haven't worked for me are still good profiles - they sound like real amps, just amps where the tone controls are set vastly differently than what suits my pickups! Again, maybe Liquid profiling will improve things here.
Haven't yet tried a Fractal, but I'm planning to get an FM3 at some point soon - I far prefer the workflow and methodology of modelers, being able to dial in your own tone from scratch, however any I've tried in the past (mostly software based) have fallen short in terms realistic tone and feel. Hence why I got a Kemper. Which certainly captures realistic tones, and feels right, but it can be hard to find specific tones you're after, depending on what works with your pickups etc. And I really don't like the "buy-to-try" business model of profile sellers - everyone seems to agree you have to try (e.g. buy!) a lot of profiles to find probably just a few that work for you, so it follows that all these companies make far more money from unsatisfied customers than satisfied ones. I'm at a point where I've bought more profiles than I care to think about, and though only a very small percentage of these have worked for me, I do now have a good selection of some really excellent sounds (mostly DI plus IR's) - BUT every now and then I need a certain sound for a certain mix, or just want to try a different amp, and there's no getting round the long/frustrating/potentially expensive search for something that works.
Hence why planning to add a modeler to my home studio. Fractal seems to be widely acknowledged as the best modeler when it comes to realism and feel, so if I'm going to compare anything to the Kemper, this seems the way to go.
The plan is to keep the Kemper tho - I think I'd miss the sounds I've found for this over the years. But unless Liquid profiling really improves the tweakability of profiles, I've pretty much had it with disappointing profile-pack purchases - so for me, a modeler is the way forward to expand my "tone library". Will probably work out cheaper in the long run as well!!
To re-iterate - it's not really about adding anything, or better sound, or more realism etc. - it just that it gives you an extra layer of control over the final tone. If you're not getting what you want from studio profiles, using IR's can be very useful. Would have sold my Kemper for a modeler long ago if I hadn't decided to give IR's a try.
Also, if I hadn't quickly found some IR's I liked (Celestion, esp. G21M65's), I'd have probably given up on IR's too - as with profiles, you have to buy quite a lot to find what you need, and will probably end up using only a few! And similarly, the ones people rave about are not always the right ones for your needs (e.g. not yet found any use for York Audio or Ownhammer)
For me, using DI profiles plus 3rd party IR's is the only way I've really managed to get the sounds I want on the Kemper. Studio profiles, too many variables, amp/cab/speakers/mics/mic positions - all have to be right to work with your pickups for the tone you want. With DI profiles, at least it's only the amp settings that have to be right (or at least in the ballpark) - can take a while to find the IR's you like, but once you do, you'll probably find a few you like that'll work for most things.
I wouldn't say there's any difference in terms of realism. Just do whatever works best for you. If you're finding studio profiles that do what you want, stick with those. If you're not quite finding the tones your after, or nothing seems to work quite right with your pickups, DI + IR might be the answer.
The cab/speaker/mic/mic-placement is obviously a huge part of the sound, so if you're using studio profiles, you're definitely still going to have to hunt for your preferred of these. With direct profiles I presume there would be less need for multiple profiles. But even disregarding differences in tone from e.g. one JCM800 to the next, as I understand, there's a lot of variables making any profile, so I'd imagine you're still going to have to hunt around for the one that works for you. And that's all assuming liquid profiling works as intended... Hopefully it will makes things a lot easier though.
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