Kemper Recording Help Please

    I have a couple questions and I’m hoping to get some answers. I’m a long time guitar player but I’m not very experienced in guitar recording and I believe I’m experiencing recording issues but can’t be totally sure until I get some questions answered. Equipment I use is Kemper (power rack 2021), Helix, Two Notes CaptorX, Laney IRT studio, and Clarett+8pre. I’ve done recording with all these devices on multiple DAWs Cubase 12 Pro, Studio One, Logic Pro and multiple computers, Gaming PC, Dell PC, IPad, and currently recording on a Mac. I’m currently using headphones as monitors audio technica ATH-M50x


    No matter what I try, my recordings are bad.. not horrible but not usable either. It’s always the same problem with all equipment listed above. My recordings don’t match what I hear at the equipment (Kemper for example). Let’s use a stereo recording for example, If I plug my headphones in the front of the Kemper it sounds crisp in the highs, the stereo field has wide depth, bass feels good and mids are good. Sounds legit.

    The same performance recorded in daw in stereo isn’t wide, too much mids, no crisp and almost sounds like the recording was done in a tin can (yell into an old coffee tin can and that’s kinda what it sounds like) I’ve tried 1000s of experiments trying to fix this problem like sample rates, volume levels, PCs, Audio interfaces, guitars, cables, EVERYTHING! Lol and I’m about done with music I’m so exhausted of all this. I must be missing something and need help PLEASE 🙏🏻


    I’m just starting to second guess everything I know so sorry for the noob questions


    Questions


    1. Should the audio from the Kemper headphones match what I record on a DAW in a stereo recording? Is quality loss normal using USB or Spidf? XLRs, TRS has some issues btw.


    2. Does Buffer size play any effect on sound quality? Or is it just to adjust the latency..?


    3. Is it normal for the Kemper USB audio signal to be so hot? Peaks and I have to adjust every preset.


    4. Is there any software that analyzes audio and can look at this?


    Just any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.

    Not sure what to suggest, a lot of the gear you mentioned using I haven't used (apart from the Kemper of course). But from your description of the sound you are getting I am wondering if it is a phase / latency related issue.


    When I first tried using external effects loops with the Kemper, I quickly realised that I needed to kill the dry sound passing through the loop, leaving 100% wet only coming back. Otherwise, the dry sound finally output by the Kemper at the master outputs would be a blend of the dry sound bypassing the loop and the dry sound going through the loop and coming back again. And because the sound going out through the looop inevitably goes through a digital to analog converter, there is a small delay involved. Blending the two dry sounds was not nice, weird phase and eq resulted, because in effect the dry sound was being mixed with a copy of it that was delayed by maybe 5-7 milliseconds. Your description of 'yelling into a coffee tin can' reminded me of what I was hearing.


    So is there something about your signal path that is causing you to either record and/or monitor your guitar sound from two sources, one slightly delayed from the other by a few milliseconds?

    1. No. The audio you hear on phones is like analog (sort of) while the DAW goes thru several digital processing DSP's (or something like that sometimes called Conversions). They way I understand it is the phones and main outs go thru one single conversion. Then another conversion in the interface and another conversion in the DAW. But don't take my explanation in stone. I'm sure someone else can explain it better.



    2. Yes. A buffer size of 64 will have lower latency compared to a buffer size of 128, but the lower you go then more chances of getting clicks and pops in the reocrding and even more so when you add DAW effects to several tracks. I can do 64 with my computer and interface but I can't go any lower than 126 using the Kemper as an interface or I get clicks, pops, and stutters.


    3. No. it's up to you to set the correct levels. There is no default setting that works for all. And, yes, different Rigs will have different volumes where you have to adjust those levels for your particular project.


    4. Nope. The "analyzer" is you. That's why gold and platinum recording studios get the big bucks.

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

    I take the 2 Main Outputs from the Kemper and connect them to 2 non-preamp inputs on my Presonus interface, which is connected to my PC and Studio One. It sounds just like my Kemper - excellent IMHO.


    I unlink the Master volume in the Kemper and use a nice level for studio or live, then never touch it.


    There could be a bit of a perception thing as well due to volume. Louder always sounds better, "juicier", more enveloping, etc, so your guitar in the mix won't sound like it does solo at volume through headphones.

    Quote from RobMiller

    My recordings don’t match what I hear at the equipment

    When I'm tracking, first thing I do is get the playback at the exact same level as the artist hears when monitoring, If it's higher or lower, perception comes into play. If they want the monitor louder, the playback does too that way the volume isn't a factor in what's going down.


    Most all here know that as volume goes up, the eq changes. (and the "feel" to me as well) If you need proof of why that's important, play two moderate level tracks for any average music consumer. Don't tell them both are exactly the same except for a slight bit of volume. Ask them which had the better sound/tones. Even though nothing has changed in the mix or eq, they'll pick the slightly louder one.


    I know that's not the top of your issues but IMO this should be a goal.


    I have a software mix monitor and it lets me set everything (tracking level, playback etc.) to where it matches and then just use a master volume as things need to go up and down. If someone wants something louder, the playback comes with it. Of course as it gets pretty loud the aforementioned perceptions kick in and you might have to adjust a bit, but the goal is to have it so the playback is consistent.

    If playback is louder than the monitor people often think the guitar frequencies are to "upper mid" if too soft, it doesn't have any "punch".

    If your interface has spdif, it’s definitely worth using that. It means there are no extra AD conversions as the Kemper digital signal gos straight into your DAW. It also means that incorrect gain settings at your oreamp are taken out of the equation. I use Logic Pro and also monitor from the interface not the DAW. Do make sure and purchase a proper spdif cable though, they look just like ordinary coax cables but are different.

    A brace of Suhrs, a Charvel, a toaster, an Apollo twin, a Mac, and a DXR10

    Thank you so much for your replies! Good advice also thanks. It’s very reassuring reading all this. I tried all these things but didn’t find any results. because of your comments I started looking in other areas to find the problem. I think I’m making progress and finally on the right track to figuring this issue out.


    I’ve been looking for some professional recorded DI stems to test that resemble my playing and finally found decent L and R guitar DI tracks. As soon as I played the DIs in Cubase I instantly noticed a big difference in sound. They sound bright and crisp compared to my DIs I tried several of my pluggins like DSP Nameless Suit and the guitars sounded great. So now I know for sure this isn’t my ears but something weird is going on between my guitar and my DAW. I still don’t know what’s going on exactly but it’s progress.

    My best guess is I got dirty power or radio frequency’s messing with my signal. My signal has always been a little noisy at this house.


    Could dirty power cause issues between the Kemper and Mac..? Again the Kemper sounds good at the unit, just not good once in the daw. 🤷‍♂️

    In your first post you listed lots of different gear. If I understand correctly you get the same results regardless of which gear you are using. However, in order to try and troubleshoot the issue pick ONE set up just now and make it as simple as possible - for example Guitar > Kemper > Kemper USB Out > Mac USB In > DAW


    If you then described the settings for each we will have a baseline to start working from.

    Finally,

    Spdif is my preferred way to connect, but I run the Kemper direct USB the most since the update.

    Spdif cables are high quality (can’t remember the brand though) but I don’t think this is the problem because if I direct monitor from the clarett the Kemper sounds ok.

    I have two different usb cables for the clarett 8pre and both of them came with the clarett, usbc/usbc, usbc/usba. Tried both no difference.


    I will not continue testing with Spdif for now atleast. Only usb, I’m trying to simplify things so we can find the issue.


    Wheresthebug

    Yes, Guitar > Kemper > Kemper USB Out > Mac USB In > DAW

    This is how I’m connected in right now. I don’t see any point to further test any other equipment since they all have the same issue. I’ll only be testing this way for now.

    I just bought a new $60 USB-A cable to try and a Jitterbug FMJ to try out also. I sometimes hear a little bit of digital noise and hoping this will fix that and also improve or fix the sound.