Would these studio monitors be frfr and work for simulating a profile exactly how it was made?
Are the Yamaha hs7 frfr?
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"FRFR" is a bit of a buzzword, but yes those monitors will give a fair enough representation of what profiles sound like.
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FRFR is a necessary thing so people understand that the speaker will try to represent all of the frequencies you can hear.
A typical 12" speaker is too heavy to be moved back and forth really fast. So they will not represent frequencies above 5 kHz very well. In this example you can see the speaker output drops hard at around 4 kHz.
A typical studio monitor tries to create a flat frequency response across the whole 20 Hz to 20 kHz range. They employ a small tweeter speaker to recreate the high frequencies.
The Kemper is trying to recreate the sound of every possible amp. So it needs a speaker that is able to create sounds well above 5 kHz etc. So that it will sound like the amp it is trying to simulate.
The low freqs are also very hard to recreate, so they will taper off no matter what. The larger the speaker the better the low freq will be generically.
Typical flat speakers "FRFR" should have a flat frequency response from around 50 - 80 Hz to 16 - 20 kHz.
The important part for a Kemper is that the speakers do not color the sound. Just because they are considered flat (which is impossible), they will still have their own voice/tone/color/sound. That is why you will see a lot of posts of people saying they tried 20 different FRFR speaker setups. For 90% of us humans, most decent 2-way speakers will be fine for casual jamming.
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I agree with all you say RosboneMako, except these two sentences i find in contradiction ;
A typical 12" speaker is too heavy to be moved back and forth really fast. So they will not represent frequencies above 5 kHz very well. In this example you can see the speaker output drops hard at around 4 kHz.
The Kemper is trying to recreate the sound of every possible amp. So it needs a speaker that is able to create sounds well above 5 kHz etc. So that it will sound like the amp it is trying to simulate.
I think Electric Guitar players could have a Half Range Flat Speaker and it should work for them, as you explained ; electrics speakers don't go further 5-6 KHz...
It just doesn't exist (or i have never seen one) cause, i assume, in most of the cases, monitors or FRFR speakers are used to listen to a group of instruments. So you need to hear frequencies above these limits...
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except these two sentences i find in contradiction ;
An example could be you are profiling an amp with an 8" or 10" speaker. Or the amp EQ boosts 6 kHz a lot for some reason. As you are pointing out, a 12" speaker may be fine with just a little better response above 5 kHz. Kemper Kone?
But the Kemper has to assume you are playing thru an FRFR. Or using a Kone that it can digitally EQ to be flat.
The safest bet is always to play thru an FRFR. That way you can record the profiles with no editing. And probably play out thru a PA with very little editing.
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The Kemper is trying to recreate the sound of every possible amp. So it needs a speaker that is able to create sounds well above 5 kHz etc. So that it will sound like the amp it is trying to simulate.
I agree in principle but in reality it isn't the high frequencies that the Kone needs to be able handle in order to mimic multiple guitar speakers but rather to be flat in the mid range as this is where the character differences between speakers really show.
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I agree in principle but in reality it isn't the high frequencies that the Kone needs to be able handle in order to mimic multiple guitar speakers but rather to be flat in the mid range as this is where the character differences between speakers really show.
This is what i wanted to mean. A flat 80Hz-8000Hz should work for electric guitars modelers/profilers.
Thanx Wheresthedug....
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I have a pair of HS7 , these are great however do not expect 100Hz bass frequency to reflect fully the amp profile, it's very far from a 4x12 thump
Anyway they are perfect for recording & mixing, done hundreds of mixes on them, they are super reliable in terms of clarity .
I use a Kone on self made cab to get the thump & vibe while recording my guitars to complement the great stereo field
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HS8 or HS7 + kone , fantastic combo
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together
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Oh man, that "FRFR" internet construct is just annoying
It's fullrange speaker, or "FR" if you want. All those speaker thingys designed for music playback (As opposed to cabinets designed for instruments).
Home stereo's, nearfield, midfield or farfield monitors, PA's or whatever. They all sound somewhat different, for better or worse.
Chose speakers that music sounds good/right though.
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Chose speakers that music sounds good/right though.
The key is to get a flat response. Studio monitors are probably the best options for flatness.
PA speakers and home stereo speakers may be designed to add some highs and lows because that is what our ears like to hear. One of the pros can probably quote some Harman curve or something that shows the exact freqs we like.
PA Speakers may also be designed to operate at very high power without blowing up. And frequency response is a 2nd worry after getting it to not blow up. No one cares how flat it is at 1000 watts
So if you are going to play at reasonable volumes, studio monitors. If you are going to crank it, maybe a PA speaker, FRFR, Kemper Kab/Kone etc...
There is no right answer.
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The key is to get a flat response. Studio monitors are probably the best options for flatness.
PA speakers and home stereo speakers may be designed to add some highs and lows because that is what our ears like to hear. One of the pros can probably quote some Harman curve or something that shows the exact freqs we like.
PA Speakers may also be designed to operate at very high power without blowing up. And frequency response is a 2nd worry after getting it to not blow up. No one cares how flat it is at 1000 watts
So if you are going to play at reasonable volumes, studio monitors. If you are going to crank it, maybe a PA speaker, FRFR, Kemper Kab/Kone etc...
There is no right answer.
There is never flat. It's variations of fullrange. And frequency response is only one part of the equation.
Oh, we do very much care about frequency response on even the biggest of PA's I also work on a multitude of studio monitors, and they all sound different. The key is to get to know it. To know how familiar music sounds through it. That way you can mix, or tune sounds, with confidence.
But yeah, if you're going to use your speaker live, tune sounds at live levels
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So what would you recommend? I just want to get the exact tone of the profile? I know you can’t get the amp feel with frfr but what’s the best option?
Live or Studio?
Live - Kemper Kone/Kabinet for feel. There are many FRFR options but theya re very clinical and not always great for playing off. The Yamaha dx10 has been a benchmark for many people over the years.
Studio - Any good studio monitors or headphones.
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Live or Studio?
Live - Kemper Kone/Kabinet for feel. There are many FRFR options but theya re very clinical and not always great for playing off. The Yamaha dx10 has been a benchmark for many people over the years.
Studio - Any good studio monitors or headphones.
ill be mostly at home so studio, i was looking at the krk rokit rp8 or the yamaha hs7, what would you go for?
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the rokit had some harsher trebles to me. Invest on a Kabinet for the live feel and a pair of HS7 , you can bring the Kabinet for live , rehearsal & jams as well
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ill be mostly at home so studio, i was looking at the krk rokit rp8 or the yamaha hs7, what would you go for?
I don;t have direct experience with the KrK's but I heard similar to waraba from other users that they could be harsh. I have some HS7's myself but I don;t use them with my Kemper or at volume as I mainly play live.
Kabinet is a nice edition although you can't mike it up so its only for in room monitoring.
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I have a bit of experience with frequency spectrum analyzers. Full Range Flat Response has a lot to do with the room to truly be "Flat response" It would be very difficult to produce a sound in your room space that sounds exactly like what it sounded like to the person that made the profile with his room conditions. Just because a pair of speakers is labeled as "flat", It won't be in your room most likely. The only way you can tell is to run pink noise and an analyzer. You'll most likely need some eq adjustments to make it completely flat. Then when you move the "ear" of the analyzer (or your ears) around the room it will change as well, so as soon as you move around your room it won't be flat either. And furthermore if you change volume it will change again. Some analyzer eqs have a way of "summing" or even storing different listening positions around the room.
I wouldn't get too hung up on it, Get a good pair of monitors and an analyzer/EQ if you want to get real picky. I'm sure my setup likely isn't completely flat but it's for reference, and I know it will sound difference through 20,000 watts of P.A gear that for sure is not running flat. Flat isn't always good. Good for reference but not always good sounding. Most great sounding indoor house systems that rock are far from flat. You may even find that a profile sounds bad through a flat speaker but great through the board/P.A., so I wouldn't worry too much about replicating the precise sound the author was hearing, be concerned with what's hitting the end user's ear.
and it should work for them, as you explained ; electrics speakers don't go further 5-6 KHz...
